cast crank?

vugbug68 · Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:24 am Post subject:

Yep! by the way I found that post by jimmy111 that i was looking for about the case differences, I tried searching before and came up empty. I knew there was one on here but i couldn't remember who started it, anyway thanks modok!
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modok · Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:15 am Post subject:

hahaha!
what wwere we talking about?
oh yeah
One time I was straighteneing one of those
I gave it 8 hits and that was enough to bend it clear the other direction worse than it was to begin with. OOPs

Pretty soft

Maybe the point was that sometimes things being super hard and strong is not the most important thing in how good stuff holds up

these mild steel cranks and as-21 are SOFTer than the usual establishment, but they live longer, kinda like YOUTH

vugbug68 · Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:02 am Post subject:

Bruce · Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:04 pm Post subject:

modok · Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:13 pm Post subject:

you never seen a corvair crank?

mark tucker · Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:35 pm Post subject:

Csaba · Samba Member Joined: February 28, 2005 Posts: 30

vwracerdave · Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:21 pm Post subject:

AS stands for the Aluminum and Silicone content of the Magnesium alloy.

AS21 = 2% Aluminum and 1% Silicone
AS41 = 4% Aluminum and 1% Silicone
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modok · Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:04 am Post subject:

You want the long answer?
search for all posts by "jimmy111"
containing the term"as-21"

His research lines up with what I have observed on used cases and what I have read about these alloys.

In summary, as-21 has 10% better resistance to cracks, but 10% lower strength and hardness. It has better creep resistance at high temps. It is also more difficult to cast because it does not flow easily.

vugbug68 · Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:44 am Post subject:

Wow! my question was answered and so much more! Rolling Eyes

now another question to debate: Are AS21 cases superior to AS41 cases?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=466815&highlight=theory

woot!
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DarthWeber · Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:56 am Post subject:

that's past Mark's bedtime. Shhh

RockCrusher · Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:13 am Post subject:

I would bet on 11:00 o'clock
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DarthWeber · Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:09 am Post subject:

I believe it was 1045??

mark tucker · Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:58 am Post subject:

click reerrrrrrrrrrrrr twang!!! can opened,and then there is the cast steel cranks!!!nodgulaur iron,etc there are so many varaition of material, even the forged versions come in somany different types,4130,4140,4110,5140,5110 and so on, and then the heat treetment or nitriding and what type of nitriding, how much aluminum is in the crank makes a difference on the nitriding & it,s effect. I think it is what you know and what you can afford and what you are sent.I was sent a 4040 crank from cip1 as a 4340 nitrided crank. I can tell the deferance, but I would bet there is a lot of guys who cant. does any body know what the material oe vw crank was made of??

[email protected] · Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:42 am Post subject:

20 years ago there was a reason to use a cast crank (save a lot of $), because good forged cranks were $500+. Now, I would not even CONSIDER IT, because you can get a great crank for $300.
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jeff68 · Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:10 am Post subject:

The Berg articles about cast crankshafts have a lot of good information and will give you a lot of questions to ask when you're choosing which crank to buy.

Although the precision casting technology may produce a high quality, strong, durable and dependable crank, how many Chinese manufacturers of VW cranks are using this technology? How about the quality of the finish machine work? Are you getting a precision casting and quality finish machine work with a $250 to $300 crank? I'm not so sure and that's what the problem is, you don't know what you're getting.

modok · Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:13 pm Post subject:

The main problems i see

-flywheel is held on by dowel pins and a big bolt, so we need the ability to press dowels into it and have strong tough threads

-crank is mainly supported by three main bearings, this does allow a lot more flex than most engines

BTW subaru uses forged cranks, as do most of the import four bangers

DarthWeber · Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:40 pm Post subject:

The Gene Berg Book of Technical Articles.

Everything anyone needs to know about cast vs. forged cranks is right in there. Flame on brothers.

RockCrusher · Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:18 pm Post subject:

To add to what Ray proffered here.....
Henry Ford was the 1st to cast a v-8 block. His engineers and metallurgists told him it was impossible to do and, in fact, there were huge difficulties and all the prototypes cracked while cooling. It was big trouble. I really don't know HOW they solved it but obviously FORD got the process under control for the blocks. VW didn't have any better or newer technology at the time.

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[email protected] Please use email for all general inquiries.

I will be happy to speak to anyone who has a serious inquiry (meaning real potential business for RC enterprises) or a parts order. Due to machining noise causing missed calls all calls will be returned promptly.

jhoefer · Samba Member Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 987

Exactly. They had already made the huge capital investment into forging. No point in throwing that away to go cast.


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