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johnshenry
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9407
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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 Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| I forgot to mention that the driver side door is sagging a bit. Probably nothing more serious than the hinge pins though. |
Don't assume that. Lift up on the door firmly, and watch the lower hinge area. The lower A pillar can get rusty/weak, and cause the door to sag.
Also, check the door and heater channels bottom thoroughly, jab them hard with a BIC pen or something non-metal. Don't just go by what they "look like", those areas rust from the inside out.
And I agree completely that the original engine is a large factor in determining value.
Good luck...
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'57 Deluxe
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bwaz
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2004
Posts: 1811
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| and when you consider purchasing non-stock, realize that in most cases if this vehicle isn't the one you've always dreamed of and hope to keep forever, you'll likely be putting it on the market again. The original purchase price does matter when it becomes difficult to re-sell and you're trying to recover some or all of your original purchase price. IMHO, pay less for something that's not original pan/body/matching numbers as you can't change those things later on. Yes you can get close, but there's only ONE matching pan and motor to that vehicle! |
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EverettB 
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 71512
Location: Phoenix 602
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:37 am Post subject: |
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My opinion:
Missing the original engine is not a huge deal with VWs but it can affect the price, all other things beings equal. A correct month/year engine with all the correct stuff will get you almost back to the same value in my opinion.
If it's not on the original pan... forget it, that is a major hit to value.
I wouldn't even buy a car like that unless it was just to customize or run as-is.
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wolfywho
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2009
Posts: 502
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| Wannasplit wrote: |
$12,500 seems high. Personally I would not let the motor stand in the way if you could get the car for 7 or 8.
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WannaSplit - That's about where I'm at too, based on what I know so far. Thanks for your input.
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'66 Beetle Project & My 1983.5 SVX Powered Vanagon Westfalia
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ToolBox
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 3439
Location: Detroit, where they don't jack parts off my ride in the parking lot of the 7-11
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| That is not a one owner car. I figured it would have sold at the auction. |
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Wannasplit
Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2009
Posts: 30
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:31 am Post subject: |
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Decide how much of a purist you want to be.
I recently passed up a '53 because it was sitting on a '57 chassis, I just would never be able to reconcile the fact that I had to explain the car everytime someone asked about it. So, I will wait for a more original car and will probably pay a lot more for the "right" car.
So it comes down to preference. Splits aren't common cars. Unless you are willing to pay market price (which is astronomically inflated right now) you may not come across another split.
$12,500 seems high. Personally I would not let the motor stand in the way if you could get the car for 7 or 8.
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17586
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfywho wrote: |
| Is this because it wouldn't match up with the original birth certificate? |
Exactly. A numbers matching car is worth more than one with the wrong engine.
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usariemen
Samba Member
Joined: August 28, 2004
Posts: 1745
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Bruce wrote: |
For a stock restoration, the original engine has a HUGE effect on the value of the car.
IMO, even if you find a Jan 53 engine to put in the car, it is still 100% the wrong engine. |
The real original engine is of course a nice touch.
But if you put in another one out of the same month, to me it would be just 10% the "wrong" engine.
What makes it that wrong to you if even an expert could not tell that it is not the original.
Putting fenders, hoods or whatever from another car on it, does not make those parts "wrong".
So, I could live well with an engine that is close to the first one.
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wolfywho
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2009
Posts: 502
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Bruce wrote: |
| wolfywho wrote: |
| How big of a bargaining chip would not having the original engine in this vintage of car be? It's probably not that easy to track down this vintage of engine block (Jan 1953) .... |
For a stock restoration, the original engine has a HUGE effect on the value of the car.
IMO, even if you find a Jan 53 engine to put in the car, it is still 100% the wrong engine. |
Interesting. Is this because it wouldn't match up with the original birth certificate? Thanks Bruce.
-Wolfy
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17586
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfywho wrote: |
| How big of a bargaining chip would not having the original engine in this vintage of car be? It's probably not that easy to track down this vintage of engine block (Jan 1953) .... |
For a stock restoration, the original engine has a HUGE effect on the value of the car.
IMO, even if you find a Jan 53 engine to put in the car, it is still 100% the wrong engine.
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| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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bwaz
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2004
Posts: 1811
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wolfywho
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2009
Posts: 502
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| Blue Baron wrote: |
| For that price, it would be nice to get the '53 1131 engine with it. Could be a bargaining chip. |
Thanks Blue. That was my thought too. It seems that all the #'s should be matching for this price.
How big of a bargaining chip would not having the original engine in this vintage of car be? It's probably not that easy to track down this vintage of engine block (Jan 1953) and parts, and probably wouldn't come cheap.
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http://www.vwblvd.com/
YouTube Channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/wolfywho
1966 VW Beetle - Body Removal - One Person - Remove Body Chassis Bug - (2x Speed)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAe4wcvIp1E |
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bwaz
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2004
Posts: 1811
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| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Blue Baron wrote: |
| For that price, it would be nice to get the '53 1131 engine with it. Could be a bargaining chip. |
yes, my zwit has the original engine when I got it. |
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Blue Baron
VW Aficionado
Joined: June 16, 2006
Posts: 28131
Location: Free State of Florida
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| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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For that price, it would be nice to get the '53 1131 engine with it. Could be a bargaining chip.
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bwaz
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2004
Posts: 1811
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| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| I paid a little less a few years ago for my zwitter. It had more done to the resto, but was missing more parts than yours. As it's been said, if you feel the car and want it, the price is fair being you can look at in person and decide how much rust repair it will need. What you initially see as a rust problem is usually deeper and more to repair. Even if you just want to clean it up and drive it, you have to want the car... that is as important as $500 more or less when buying it. |
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wolfywho
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2009
Posts: 502
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| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: '53 Zwitter Price Advice |
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| Bruce wrote: |
| wolfywho wrote: |
| I'm thinking that $12,500 is too much for it, |
It doesn't matter what anyone on here thinks of the price, YOU are the one with the wallet, and you are not comfortable paying that price. |
Yes, that's true. I appreciate everyone's advice though, and don't take it lightly. You guys have been in the trenches with this vintage of Beetle, and a lot can be learned from all of you. It's always good to get additional input, just in case I'm forgetting (usually the case) something.
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http://www.vwblvd.com/
YouTube Channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/wolfywho
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17586
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: '53 Zwitter Price Advice |
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| wolfywho wrote: |
| I'm thinking that $12,500 is too much for it, |
It doesn't matter what anyone on here thinks of the price, YOU are the one with the wallet, and you are not comfortable paying that price.
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| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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Rich's 50
Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2004
Posts: 10794
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| Seems to be priced right to me, unless if it has rust and hidden issues |
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Oldnslow
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2003
Posts: 465
Location: Idaho
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| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| Oldnslow wrote: |
| I can see your dilemma. The price does seem high but if it doesn't need a lot of rust repair you may be ahead of the game. The area you live in isn't exactly Arizona when it comes to rust. To put it another way you might find another one for $5000 but it would need $8000 in rust repair and parts. Step one is to go back and take a long look and make sure it is really what it appears to be. How many zwitter splits are there in Michigan? |
They had 15's |
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Oldnslow
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2003
Posts: 465
Location: Idaho
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| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:45 am Post subject: |
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| I can see your dilemma. The price does seem high but if it doesn't need a lot of rust repair you may be ahead of the game. The area you live in isn't exactly Arizona when it comes to rust. To put it another way you might find another one for $5000 but it would need $8000 in rust repair and parts. Step one is to go back and take a long look and make sure it is really what it appears to be. How many zwitter splits are there in Michigan? |
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