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Porschedave
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 461
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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 Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2024 8:31 pm Post subject: Re: Had some time for my '65 Notch today... |
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The manual states: When attaching the rear engine mounting, only use as many synthetic washers as are necessary to raise the engine about 2 to 3 mm.
This suggests that there is a firm connection between the mount and the engine, which is different from having the support not touching the rubber housing.
I'll have to go out tomorrow and have a close look at my setup.
Thanks for the on-going support.
Dave
_________________
1977 911S
1958 Karmann Ghia build thread here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=571683
1965 Sunroof Notch build thread here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5600139&highlight=#5600139 |
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4507
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2024 8:06 pm Post subject: Re: Had some time for my '65 Notch today... |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| ataraxia wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
If I remember right there should be at least 7 fiber shims that go between the rear mount and the body hanger. You might need a couple more, but never less than 7. In reality, that mount shouldn't have any tension on it at all (possibly a gap around the tube and the rubber bushing). I don't know if the ISP rubber fits tight to the tube or not. That rear mount is mainly to keep the engine/trans from diving on take off (like a snubber). You might want to look at the trans mounts to see if any have separated, allowing the engine -trans combo to move forward/backward, causing the paint to wear off the fan shroud. I hope this helps. |
7+ can't be correct. I've never had an engine with 7+ shims on the rear mount - my car currently has new bushings in a freshly rebuilt subframe and there are 3 shims in it. The tube isn't touching the rubber. |
It might not be 7, but then I've yet to own a Swing Axle type 3 that hadn't been messed with prior to me getting it. Maybe this would be a good question to ask the 1500 club, since those fiber shims were used from the beginning.
I was just going off his pics, and that he mentioned using 2 shims, and the wear on the tube (some of it being pretty deep). I just know you don't want the rubber mount part tight (up or down) to the tube. That's what the shims are for (moving the mount). |
The correct number is whatever it takes to get the tube centered in the hole while not touching the rubber ring, as far as I can recall. I looked in the book and didn't see anything about a specific number of shims - but I'll also admit that I didn't look all that long. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23388
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2024 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Had some time for my '65 Notch today... |
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| ataraxia wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
If I remember right there should be at least 7 fiber shims that go between the rear mount and the body hanger. You might need a couple more, but never less than 7. In reality, that mount shouldn't have any tension on it at all (possibly a gap around the tube and the rubber bushing). I don't know if the ISP rubber fits tight to the tube or not. That rear mount is mainly to keep the engine/trans from diving on take off (like a snubber). You might want to look at the trans mounts to see if any have separated, allowing the engine -trans combo to move forward/backward, causing the paint to wear off the fan shroud. I hope this helps. |
7+ can't be correct. I've never had an engine with 7+ shims on the rear mount - my car currently has new bushings in a freshly rebuilt subframe and there are 3 shims in it. The tube isn't touching the rubber. |
It might not be 7, but then I've yet to own a Swing Axle type 3 that hadn't been messed with prior to me getting it. Maybe this would be a good question to ask the 1500 club, since those fiber shims were used from the beginning.
I was just going off his pics, and that he mentioned using 2 shims, and the wear on the tube (some of it being pretty deep). I just know you don't want the rubber mount part tight (up or down) to the tube. That's what the shims are for (moving the mount).
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4507
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2024 5:27 pm Post subject: Re: Had some time for my '65 Notch today... |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
If I remember right there should be at least 7 fiber shims that go between the rear mount and the body hanger. You might need a couple more, but never less than 7. In reality, that mount shouldn't have any tension on it at all (possibly a gap around the tube and the rubber bushing). I don't know if the ISP rubber fits tight to the tube or not. That rear mount is mainly to keep the engine/trans from diving on take off (like a snubber). You might want to look at the trans mounts to see if any have separated, allowing the engine -trans combo to move forward/backward, causing the paint to wear off the fan shroud. I hope this helps. |
7+ can't be correct. I've never had an engine with 7+ shims on the rear mount - my car currently has new bushings in a freshly rebuilt subframe and there are 3 shims in it. The tube isn't touching the rubber. |
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Porschedave
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 461
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2024 2:04 pm Post subject: Re: Had some time for my '65 Notch today... |
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Hi Bob
Thanks for the reply. I had only 2 fibre spacers in there. I looked at the type 3 parts book at it does not specify a number. I would think that the number would reflect issues like where the mount sits on the body, how the engine sits on the sub-frame etc. This would be especially the case in a car that has gone through the kind of work that I have done on this car. I'll get some from ISPwest and see what effect that has.
Cheers.
Dave
_________________
1977 911S
1958 Karmann Ghia build thread here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=571683
1965 Sunroof Notch build thread here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5600139&highlight=#5600139 |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23388
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2024 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Had some time for my '65 Notch today... |
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| Porschedave wrote: |
Hi Folks
I have a question about the rear engine hanger on my notch. I had the engine out and noticed that the rear support had quite a lot of wear, as you can see in this photo.
The manual states: When attaching the rear engine mounting, only use as many synthetic washers as are necessary to raise the engine about 2 to 3 mm. The vehicle must be unladen and standing on a level surface when doing this. It should also be bounced firmly once to even out the suspension.
Is the connection between the mount and the engine hanger supposed to be rigid? On mine it seems that there is movement as some of the fan shroud is worn as is the paint on the hanger. This movement may explain the odd thump I get as I drive.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks
Dave
ps; Got some new wheels for the notch:
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If I remember right there should be at least 7 fiber shims that go between the rear mount and the body hanger. You might need a couple more, but never less than 7. In reality, that mount shouldn't have any tension on it at all (possibly a gap around the tube and the rubber bushing). I don't know if the ISP rubber fits tight to the tube or not. That rear mount is mainly to keep the engine/trans from diving on take off (like a snubber). You might want to look at the trans mounts to see if any have separated, allowing the engine -trans combo to move forward/backward, causing the paint to wear off the fan shroud. I hope this helps.
P.S. The rims look good on it. Kind of reminds me of Brian Fye's Notch he was building for the track.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Porschedave
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 461
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2024 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: Had some time for my '65 Notch today... |
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Hi Folks
I have a question about the rear engine hanger on my notch. I had the engine out and noticed that the rear support had quite a lot of wear, as you can see in this photo.
The manual states: When attaching the rear engine mounting, only use as many synthetic washers as are necessary to raise the engine about 2 to 3 mm. The vehicle must be unladen and standing on a level surface when doing this. It should also be bounced firmly once to even out the suspension.
Is the connection between the mount and the engine hanger supposed to be rigid? On mine it seems that there is movement as some of the fan shroud is worn as is the paint on the hanger. This movement may explain the odd thump I get as I drive.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks
Dave
ps; Got some new wheels for the notch:
_________________
1977 911S
1958 Karmann Ghia build thread here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=571683
1965 Sunroof Notch build thread here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5600139&highlight=#5600139 |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23388
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2023 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Had some time for my '65 Notch today... |
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It's good to hear that you've got the "bugs" worked out of it so you can start on the 911. That should be a good build to watch if it's anything like either of the Notchbacks were, or the Ghia was. Now that you've got a few rebuilds under your belt, it should be an easy one to do. According to Tram Porsche parts are easier to find, just more expensive.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Porschedave
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 461
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2023 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: Had some time for my '65 Notch today... |
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Hi Bob
Sorry to be slow in replying. The wheels are 15 x 5.5 and were given to me by my friend Henry who used to run Intermeccanica. These wheels were custom made (painted I think) and then the owner decided he didn't want them. They had fresh snow tires on them whereas mine were 20 years old. They fit and I'm good for snow if it comes to the pacific northwest.
By the way, now that the Notch is done and seems totally reliable I've begun the process of looking at what I need to do to the 911. Perhaps I'll start a thread on the Porsche forum here on the Samba.
Dave
_________________
1977 911S
1958 Karmann Ghia build thread here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=571683
1965 Sunroof Notch build thread here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5600139&highlight=#5600139 |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23388
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2023 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: Had some time for my '65 Notch today... |
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| Porschedave wrote: |
Hi Folks
I’m back on the road again. It has taken a few weeks to sort this all out. Getting the rear sub-frame out was not difficult, getting it back in was a challenge. I’m a one-man operation and the weight and odd size of the sub-frame and the transaxle made for some interesting challenges.
I had the new/old sub-frame blasted an then I epoxy primed it before blowing on some black single stage. Getting it back in the car was achieved by using long bolts initially to hang it from the 5 pick-up points. Once it was stable I put in new bushings and replaced the long bolts with short ones finally reaching the original size. I then set about re-indexing the torsion bars and the swing plates. I achieved that with only a .4° difference from side-to-side. Not too bad.
Getting the transaxle in was achieved by lowering the car so that it was essentially sitting on its pan. I could then slide the transaxle in place. And then finally getting the engine back in. I also took the opportunity to rebuild the front calipers and bleed all the brake lines. Whew!
I'm pretty happy with the stance and with those snow tires I'm ready for some winter driving here in the pacific northwest. And now maybe I can get some work done on the 911.
Dave |
Congrats on getting it back on the road in a short time. I too like the look of it. It's got a sort of "rally" look. Just needs a hand painted old style number added. 
What size tires are you running on it? Are the rims widened steelies?
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Porschedave
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 461
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2023 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: Had some time for my '65 Notch today... |
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Hi Folks
I’m back on the road again. It has taken a few weeks to sort this all out. Getting the rear sub-frame out was not difficult, getting it back in was a challenge. I’m a one-man operation and the weight and odd size of the sub-frame and the transaxle made for some interesting challenges.
I had the new/old sub-frame blasted an then I epoxy primed it before blowing on some black single stage. Getting it back in the car was achieved by using long bolts initially to hang it from the 5 pick-up points. Once it was stable I put in new bushings and replaced the long bolts with short ones finally reaching the original size. I then set about re-indexing the torsion bars and the swing plates. I achieved that with only a .4° difference from side-to-side. Not too bad.
Getting the transaxle in was achieved by lowering the car so that it was essentially sitting on its pan. I could then slide the transaxle in place. And then finally getting the engine back in. I also took the opportunity to rebuild the front calipers and bleed all the brake lines. Whew!
I'm pretty happy with the stance and with those snow tires I'm ready for some winter driving here in the pacific northwest. And now maybe I can get some work done on the 911.
Dave
_________________
1977 911S
1958 Karmann Ghia build thread here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=571683
1965 Sunroof Notch build thread here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5600139&highlight=#5600139 |
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Porschedave
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 461
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23388
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2023 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: Had some time for my '65 Notch today... |
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| Porschedave wrote: |
Hi Bob
You may recall that the other dark green notch was swing axle but I converted it to IRS, having made new mounts etc. I had found locally a freeway flyer tranny so I used it. It worked out really well. But I think this one will stay swing axle because I don't have another tranny.
I have been a type 3 horder, thanks to Russ' advice, but I seem to be going through parts these days getting this car together. Oh well, why not.
Stay tuned for the up-coming updates.
Dave |
In that case, I'd just use what I have. That way you can keep costs down, and limit down time, as the snow will be flying soon.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Porschedave
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 461
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2023 1:59 pm Post subject: Re: Had some time for my '65 Notch today... |
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Hi Bob
You may recall that the other dark green notch was swing axle but I converted it to IRS, having made new mounts etc. I had found locally a freeway flyer tranny so I used it. It worked out really well. But I think this one will stay swing axle because I don't have another tranny.
I have been a type 3 horder, thanks to Russ' advice, but I seem to be going through parts these days getting this car together. Oh well, why not.
Stay tuned for the up-coming updates.
Dave
_________________
1977 911S
1958 Karmann Ghia build thread here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=571683
1965 Sunroof Notch build thread here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5600139&highlight=#5600139 |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23388
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2023 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: Had some time for my '65 Notch today... |
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Don't look now Dave, but you're becoming a horder. Just kidding, although with all of the type 3 parts you had from the 2 different Notchbacks you've rebuilt I'd be surprised if you didn't have a spare rear sub.
Keep in mind before you get too far that if you're going to put an IRS trans in that subframe you might need to clearance it for the CV joints. Just a heads up.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Porschedave
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 461
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: Had some time for my '65 Notch today... |
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Hi
Great advice. I snooped around locally but there weren't any and then I asked myself do I have another one? Perhaps under the porch with all the other type 3 stuff?
And sure enough way at the back, behind snow tires and my R-compound track tries was a subframe, well two actually one for a swing axle and the other for a newer setup.
Now I will get this blasted and painted and replace the busted one in the car. Good thing the 911 is still on the road.
Dave
_________________
1977 911S
1958 Karmann Ghia build thread here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=571683
1965 Sunroof Notch build thread here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5600139&highlight=#5600139 |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23388
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 11:52 am Post subject: Re: Had some time for my '65 Notch today... |
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| notchboy wrote: |
Me, Id just go get another rear torsion assembly.
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Agreed. It would be the easiest way to fix it. Also it would allow you to inspect the replacement part before installing it. I know I have a couple of them around as spares, as the "cup" part seems to rust out. Andy has some great pics of his repairs on his 66 Squareback, if you really want to go that route.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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notchboy
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 22659
Location: Escondido CA
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Porschedave
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 461
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2023 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: Had some time for my '65 Notch today... |
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Hi Folks
I wanted to put in new torsion-bar bushings and took things apart. Here is what I found on the driver's side -
It seems that there had been some repair to this area long, long ago. I recall that the pan came separately from the body and obviously this repair was not seen by me - mind you it was the first type 3 for me and I worked on this car 20 years ago - yikes! So now I need to figure out how to repair this and do a better job than the previous person.
Dave
_________________
1977 911S
1958 Karmann Ghia build thread here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=571683
1965 Sunroof Notch build thread here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5600139&highlight=#5600139 |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23388
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2023 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: Had some time for my '65 Notch today... |
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| Porschedave wrote: |
Hi Folks
The notch has been my daily driver for a while now and it is fun to drive around. Today I took an old friend to a local cars and coffee event at the top parking lot at Cypress Bowl ski area. There were 350 or so cars there and only one type 3 - and maybe 2 bugs. The road up to the top is quite long and and uphill of course but the notch in 3rd had no problem. And it looks pretty good ...
Dave |
Looks good Dave, congrats on getting it running and driving again. Wonder what your friend thought about cruising up to the Cypress Bowl ski area parking lot. I mean it's not exactly your 911. Even if it shares some DNA with it. You're doing what you should be doing with it, taking it out and driving it. Enjoy it. 
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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| Back to top |
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