How much rear wheel bearing play is ok?

clockworkbox

I'm posting here rather than start a new thread and hopefully this helps someone with this issue. I was going nuts trying to figure out the issue I had with radial play after rebuilding my trailing arms with new FAG bearings, spacers, seals and VW stub axles in excellent condition. I checked everything I could find on these message boards to find a solution; the axle nut was properly torqued with a torque multiplier (amazing tool btw), the bearings fit tightly in the housings, the axles were in good shape, all spacers were present and properly oriented, and the bearings were new. I had another set of rebuilt trailing arms from part of a deal I had made but the PO who built them had put the swing axle washer/spacer and o-ring on the axle so I was not super confident in the build quality and decided to go with my own. After installing, I found that I had enough radial play that there was an audible clunk when moving the axle from side to side. There was no axial play however. Using the new parts from the spare trailing arm, I tried switching spacers, axle, and even the axle nut with no change. What it ended up being is play in the inner race of the outer roller bearing. I swapped races and the issue resolved. The weird thing is that both bearings are new FAG bearings with the same part number. Anyway, if someone has the issue with radial play in their rear axle bearings, this is another thing to check.
_________________
'69 Beetle (pieces)
Learning the hard way is still learning...

brc0703 · Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:56 pm Post subject:

ok i take back what i said.. after very few miles the wheels are loose again..
i pulled the drum and looked at it closely as i wiggled the axle stub and there is minor movement in the outer bearing.. its a new bearing but seems the inner race is secure on the shaft and the outer in the hub so the bearings or contacting surfaces have to be worn i guess.. im gona try not to stress on it and get to it when im not mad at it

im so ready to be done with this..
i need to get full coverage and some dynamite

oh and i did think of that e brake spacer causing the rattle at first and made this spring washer thing

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evilphoton

there is a bar in the emergency brake wheel assembly that goes from the front shoe to the rear shoe.. that bar needs to be clipped to the spring that runs just below (or above, can't remember) it... or it will chatter like the dickens and resonate all through the back of the car like a couple open end wrenches being clanked together. I've never seen a loose wheel bearing make any noise other than a growl when they're shot.

if the noise is there, tug the emergency brake lever and see if the noise goes away

Blue69Baja · Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:03 pm Post subject:

brc0703 · Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:16 pm Post subject:

still has a tiny bit of movement rocking the wheel but not nearly as much as when i started.. using a bit of locktite 660 (i think) for slip fittings helped a little, even if its just some false hope..
but been a couple weeks and that loud clanky sound is gone.. mission complete lol..

thanks again guys for the help

just to share another issue.. today i jacked up the front by the little mount under the driver jam and noticed from inside that the body lifted off the pan about 2"
been driving around for 6 years with only the 13mm pan/body bolts and the 2 rear 17mm..
the 4 front 17mm pan bolts were MIA and the 2 17mm under the tank were loose... hopefully fixing these will make it feel a little more rigid and not like im in a hover craft

Q-Dog · Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:35 am Post subject:

I just read through this entire thread and it sounds like the inner surface of the trailing arm is worn or stretched. (or the bearings are undersized, which I doubt) At least, that's my guess. Running the car for a good while with a bad bearing can do this. (There's really no way to know what a previous owner may have done to the car.)

I recall someone else with this issue and their solution was to shim around the bearing. The other option is to replace the trailing arm.
_________________
Brian

'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle

JerryMCarter1 · Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:26 am Post subject:

no noise ?
_________________
Experience always triumphs over hearsay and You get to select which theory to believe

brc0703 · Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:27 am Post subject:

well still has about .08" of wiggle in it but its a lot better than it was.. i think even my new inner bearing has a little give to it.. with it on the axle stub i get a tiny bit of movement rocking the outer race.. im done with it for now though.. its together and rolling.. thanks for all the help guys.. heres a few pics of what i have

brc0703 · Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:17 pm Post subject:

the drum is fairly new.. i bought all 4 new maybe 1 1/2 to 2 years ago,, now has both new bearings.. the inner was a tight fit and had to be pressed in but the outer was a tight slip in fit.. light tapping with a rubber mallot.. the stub was a tight fir this time i had to hit it a little to get it through compared to the old bearings i just wiggled it a little..

about the torque of the 36mm nut.. my torque wrench only goes to 150lbs so a while back what i did was rented a 250lbs wrench and used my impact and checked what the torque was for each setting.. when set at 3 it was just about 250.. i made sure i had a full 90psi in the tank and well oiled impact.. so i let the impact do most the work then use a breaker bar with cheater and a long pry bar to hold the hub and tighten till the hole lines up in the castle nut... should be somewhere in the ballpark around 260

Blue69Baja · Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:28 pm Post subject:

brc0703 · Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:09 pm Post subject:

i got the new bearings and put it all back together but still has a little play.. not in and out but when you rock the drum holding at 12 and 6.. not nearly as much as before but there shouldnt be any right? im going to take it back apart and bolt it together off the hub and see if i can find whats giving.. ill take some pics of how i have the spacers and check the c clip and hub also..

really want to fix it.. right now i feel like i wasted $50 and a day of work..

Blue69Baja · Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:40 pm Post subject:

brc0703 · Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:12 pm Post subject:

got a new outerbearing and as i was trying to disassemble everything punched right into the cage of the inner ball bearing.. FML.. so 2 new bearings for 1 wheel and if that doesnt do it then im gona try to just ignore it.. been working fine for 6 years just one of those things that everytime you hear it eats at you little by little cuz you know its not right..

Blue69Baja · Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:55 am Post subject:

Add a little more to what I am talking about...

If one were to take all the parts required to put the stub axle, bearings, all the spacers and then the drum all together on a bench and tighten up the axle nut all the pieces, spacers, drum stub axle would not move. The inner bearing would be locked in place and you could turn it.... BUT YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO MOVE IT IN AND OUT... THE BALLS ARE LOCKED/TIGHT TOLLERANCES IN THE RACES AND WILL NOT ALLOW ANY IN AND OUT MOVEMENT...

The outer bearing floats on the inner race so you can turn it and actually move the outer race and rollers in and out but the inner race is locked....

Jim
_________________
69 Baja with a 1914...
72 Super 100% orig...W/ factory air... 56,000mi
Even the spare is original..

Blue69Baja · Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:43 am Post subject:

brc0703 · Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:49 am Post subject:

im thinking the outerbearing might be a little worn.. doesnt look like it but when i spin the inner race only the rollers im pushing against roll the rest just slide till i get around and put some force on them.. gona give a new one and hope that solves it.. monument should be calling me anytime when the part gets in

Blue69Baja · Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:11 am Post subject:

The inner "BALL" bearing is what keeps things tight...
The cclip keeps the inner bearing tight..
If the cclip is too narrow then it will allow the inner bearing to move in and out... Don't think that is your problem

Have heard of some folks assembling the bearings in the wrong place... Inner ball bearing on the outside and the roller on the inside...
or both bearings are roller!

Check the Cclip width and the groove... Pop out the inner bearing and check it out.... There should be "0" lateral play nor up and down.

Jim
_________________
69 Baja with a 1914...
72 Super 100% orig...W/ factory air... 56,000mi
Even the spare is original..

goober · Samba Member Joined: May 03, 2003 Posts: 1233

Is the cir-clip and groove in good shape?

brc0703 · Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:22 am Post subject:

hmm.. by distance you mean the width of the drum? like the rim near the backing plate? not sure thats really this problem.. with the tire on is more noticeable that somethings loose or missing maybe.. i noticed that the outer bearings were both on different ways.. 1 with the open side facing in and visaversa.. not sure what the correct way is but i put the open side in.. figured thats where the grease is.. im going to get a new outer bearing and see how that does.. i did a little more wiggling around and if i grab the nut in the center i get no in/out movement just rocking up and down.. hope that does it cuz i am tired of taking these hubs apart.. greasy as hell and im about out of gloves and rags


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