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vanagonjr
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2010
Posts: 3620
Location: Dartmouth, Mass.
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 Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Can the 1.8t run backward? |
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| vwwestyman wrote: |
| Thanks for sharing. I remember wondering about that combo after reading that the Honda engine spins "backwards." I figured that if you mounted the "backwards" engine to a transmission driving backwards, it would make the vehicle drive frontwards! ha |
The later engines, those released in 2000 or later, spun clockwise however.
The S2000 roadster was the first Honda with CW rotation. My 7th gem Civic (2001-2004) ran clockwise (291,000 miles until a deer took it out, RIP)
Too bad they didn’t all run CCW!
_________________
John - 86 Wolfsburg Westfalia "Weekender"
Flint reversed 1.8T W/Passat 5-Speed
LiMBO (late model bus club) www.limbobus.org
LiMBO is on Facebook too! https://www.facebook.com/groups/
FAQ thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=525798 |
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0cean
Samba Member
Joined: February 29, 2012
Posts: 1153
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:22 am Post subject: Re: Can the 1.8t run backward? |
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| vwwestyman wrote: |
| Thanks for sharing. I remember wondering about that combo after reading that the Honda engine spins "backwards." I figured that if you mounted the "backwards" engine to a transmission driving backwards, it would make the vehicle drive frontwards! ha |
Something new.. Nice.
_________________
I'm not a mechanic, I just play one on the internet
Cluster Rebuild:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569920&highlight=
Left for Dead the Resurrection Story Build:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=613669
(Number of Different Donor VW Vans Body Parts Used: 12)
(Number of completely different vehicles parts used: 3) |
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5818
Location: Wamego, Kansas, USA
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pekar
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2021
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:38 am Post subject: Re: Can the 1.8t run backward? |
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Hello from Russia.
Maybe someone will find it interesting -- Honda B20B + Passat b5 gearbox swap to T3. Run for about 20.000 now, gearbox feels fine, no sounds, no metall in oil etc. Car is not mine, just my country fellow.
If his gearbox wont die before summer, I will swap b20/b16 hybrid to my T3. I am a big fan of Hondas and T3 with b20 vtec sounds great, but revers running gearbox is my headache. Probably every time the vtec will kick in I will worry about gearbox lol.
Sorry for my english,
Best regards
Link
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vanagonjr
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2010
Posts: 3620
Location: Dartmouth, Mass.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:42 am Post subject: Re: Can the 1.8t run backward? |
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| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
| When does that thing hit peak torque, like 6500rpms? |
Not sure if same engine - from a Honda Forum- Use at your own risk,
B20B
1996-1998 specs
NON-VTEC
Found in: USDM and JDM Honda CR-V, JDM Orthia, Stepwgn, S-MX
Displacement: 1,973 cc (120.4 cu in)
Power: 126 hp (94 kW)) @ 5400 rpm
Torque: 133 ft·lbf (180 N·m) @ 4300 rpm
Rod length: 137 mm (5.4 in)
Compression: 8.8:1 or 9.2:1
Bore: 84 mm (3.3 in)
Stroke: 89 mm (3.5 in)
Redline: 6300 rpm
B20B/B20Z
1999 - 2001 specs
NON-VTEC
Found in: USDM CRV as a B20Z, CR-V and Honda Orthia as a B20B
Displacement: 1,973 cc (120.4 cu in)
Power: 147 hp (110 kW) @ 6200 rpm
Torque: 133 lb·ft (180 N·m) @ 4800 rpm
Rod length: 137 mm (5.4 in)
Compression: 9.6:1
Bore: 84 mm (3.3 in)
Stroke: 89 mm (3.5 in)
Redline: 6700 rpm
_________________
John - 86 Wolfsburg Westfalia "Weekender"
Flint reversed 1.8T W/Passat 5-Speed
LiMBO (late model bus club) www.limbobus.org
LiMBO is on Facebook too! https://www.facebook.com/groups/
FAQ thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=525798 |
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Wellington
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: Can the 1.8t run backward? |
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What transmission is he using?
The transmission of choice is from a 1990 Audi 80/90 4 cylinder model 012
The beauty is the CV joints bolt right up.
You can also use the 4 cylinder Passat /A4 transmission, but the output shafts are not a direct bolt up. |
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Splank365
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2019
Posts: 2
Location: Meath, Ireland
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: Can the 1.8t run backward? |
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| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
| When does that thing hit peak torque, like 6500rpms? |
The B20B is not your typical honda engine the redline is at 6500. They are non vtec, it's basically just a standard 2.0 16v 4 pot similar to a VW only it rotates counter clockwise. In standard spec peak torque is at 4800rpm and it's a smooth delivery to that.
It's never going to have turbo torque figures because... well it hasn't got a turbo.
The carbs I have on it are jetted for midrange rather than peak too |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12161
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: Can the 1.8t run backward? |
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I think he mentioned the 012 trans is from a V6 A4/Passat
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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JDub113
Samba Member
Joined: June 08, 2009
Posts: 767
Location: Reno
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:44 am Post subject: Re: Can the 1.8t run backward? |
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| Wellington wrote: |
Honda motor......let's not go backwards LOL
The 1.8T AEB makes 150hp and more importantly 155 ft lbs of torque by 1800 rpm. Compare those numbers to all other conversions! Low RPM torque is what will move our boxes. Chip it and it really wakes up.
Andrew is a genius, he managed to mate this power plant to a transmission properly geared, and the transmission is robust. I've read where people are putting gobs of power through these transmissions (in an A4 or Passat)and the transmissions are doing fine.
No adapter plate, no $2500 rebuild on a Vanagon transmission only meant to take 90hp. And it's all VAG!!
Can you tell I love mine. |
What transmission is he using?
_________________
84 Wolfsburg Edition Westy |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12161
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:51 am Post subject: Re: Can the 1.8t run backward? |
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When does that thing hit peak torque, like 6500rpms?
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Splank365
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2019
Posts: 2
Location: Meath, Ireland
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:22 am Post subject: Re: Can the 1.8t run backward? |
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| scir16v wrote: |
I know this may sound blasphemous, but what about adapting a pre-2000 honda 4 cylinder engine to an audi transmission. They spin CCW naturally.
Don't get me wrong, very cool project and work to get a motor to spin opposite of what it was designed to do. |
It's possible alright.
This is a B20B (well actually its the test block which was a B16 but it's the same)
Gearbox is standard and uses the standard audi clutch. The engine is also completely standard. All changeover is done with the adapter plate and the flywheel.
The honda management uses a distributor which gets in the way so I'm running it on 45s |
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tristessa
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2004
Posts: 3993
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: Can the 1.8t run backward? |
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| levi wrote: |
| [when I could get them from a junkyard for 137, but they've increased in value so rapidly in just the last 10 years |
Cheapest I'm finding on an '87 2WD Vanagon at a "mainline" dismantler through car-part.com is $750.... |
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levi
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2005
Posts: 5522
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: Can the 1.8t run backward? |
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| Wellington wrote: |
Honda motor......let's not go backwards LOL
The 1.8T AEB makes 150hp and more importantly 155 ft lbs of torque by 1800 rpm. Compare those numbers to all other conversions! Low RPM torque is what will move our boxes. Chip it and it really wakes up.
Andrew is a genius, he managed to mate this power plant to a transmission properly geared, and the transmission is robust. I've read where people are putting gobs of power through these transmissions (in an A4 or Passat)and the transmissions are doing fine.
No adapter plate, no $2500 rebuild on a Vanagon transmission only meant to take 90hp. And it's all VAG!!
Can you tell I love mine. |
The future implied positive value from having left the vanagon transmission behind is large and continues to grow.
I was willing to accept needing to source another box every few years when I could get them from a junkyard for 137, but they've increased in value so rapidly in just the last 10 years that I'm afraid of what that landscape will look like 10-15 years from now.
_________________
One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way
https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40 |
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Wellington
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:15 am Post subject: Re: Can the 1.8t run backward? |
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Honda motor......let's not go backwards LOL
The 1.8T AEB makes 150hp and more importantly 155 ft lbs of torque by 1800 rpm. Compare those numbers to all other conversions! Low RPM torque is what will move our boxes. Chip it and it really wakes up.
Andrew is a genius, he managed to mate this power plant to a transmission properly geared, and the transmission is robust. I've read where people are putting gobs of power through these transmissions (in an A4 or Passat)and the transmissions are doing fine.
No adapter plate, no $2500 rebuild on a Vanagon transmission only meant to take 90hp. And it's all VAG!!
Can you tell I love mine. |
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vanagonjr
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2010
Posts: 3620
Location: Dartmouth, Mass.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: Can the 1.8t run backward? |
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| scir16v wrote: |
I know this may sound blasphemous, but what about adapting a pre-2000 honda 4 cylinder engine to an audi transmission. They spin CCW naturally.
Don't get me wrong, very cool project and work to get a motor to spin opposite of what it was designed to do. |
In general terms, no real torque, high reving, not a good fit probably.
And I love high-reving Honda engines, I’ve logged over 1/2 million miles on them, but no interest in one for a van. For a bug, might be a good fit - depends on gearing.
_________________
John - 86 Wolfsburg Westfalia "Weekender"
Flint reversed 1.8T W/Passat 5-Speed
LiMBO (late model bus club) www.limbobus.org
LiMBO is on Facebook too! https://www.facebook.com/groups/
FAQ thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=525798 |
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tristessa
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2004
Posts: 3993
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:56 pm Post subject: Re: Can the 1.8t run backward? |
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| scir16v wrote: |
| I know this may sound blasphemous, but what about adapting a pre-2000 honda 4 cylinder engine to an audi transmission. They spin CCW naturally. |
Sounds nifty in a perverse sort of way. Be sure to post lots of pictures in your build thread to let us know how it's done.
 |
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xoo00oox
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2010
Posts: 2724
Location: East Nassau, NY
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:26 pm Post subject: Re: Can the 1.8t run backward? |
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| scir16v wrote: |
I know this may sound blasphemous, but what about adapting a pre-2000 honda 4 cylinder engine to an audi transmission. They spin CCW naturally.
Don't get me wrong, very cool project and work to get a motor to spin opposite of what it was designed to do. |
That's a nice project for somebody else to do. |
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scir16v
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2018
Posts: 2
Location: St. Louis
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: Can the 1.8t run backward? |
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I know this may sound blasphemous, but what about adapting a pre-2000 honda 4 cylinder engine to an audi transmission. They spin CCW naturally.
Don't get me wrong, very cool project and work to get a motor to spin opposite of what it was designed to do. |
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xoo00oox
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2010
Posts: 2724
Location: East Nassau, NY
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:20 am Post subject: Re: Can the 1.8t run backward? |
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| 1988M5 wrote: |
Top of my head thinking, why not avoid the backward spinning engine and desired R&P changes in one devise? A newly created planetary gear set/ CV joint? All current CVs seem to be iffy at best and folks are willing to spend money to solve this Achilles heal.
Brian
Ps just spit balling |
Interesting idea, go get to work on it.
The advantage of the CCW 1.8t is that it can be done very inexpensively using almost all stock VW parts, you just need to reconfigure them a bit. |
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xoo00oox
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2010
Posts: 2724
Location: East Nassau, NY
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| Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:57 am Post subject: Re: Can the 1.8t run backward? |
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| metropoj wrote: |
I wonder if it is worth a mod to the thread title to say this is for the early 058 AEB ATW engines as Andrew has so kindly introduced the new thread for the 06a.
I fear the 2 threads will start to get quite cross contaminated with content between these 2 different motors...
Thanks again Andrew for sharing your time and ingenuity with us, along with the others to helped spur discussions, thoughts and solutions along the way. I am merely a lightweight amongst the heavyweights in this forum !
I am hoping when the time comes that the clarity of how you guys properly set the valve timing is universal between the 2 different 1.8t motors  hint hint, lol ...
Cheers everyone ... |
The valve timing is identical between the early and late 1.8t engines. I'll be showing how to do that next. |
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