Fuzzy manual transmission plug after rebuild

[SSWesty]

3rd oil change on AA rebuild, this one was at about a 7,500 mile interval over 2 years. Total miles on rebuild is about 30k now. This interval had more in town miles and towing than prior changes. For the record the tranny has a peloquin and is pushing a 2wd Westy with 27x8.50x14 Grabber tires. Looks like wear has settled down from the first 5k oil change that I started this thread with.

[Sodo]

Buy two new magnetic plugs (then you have three). Use one the filler hole, so you double your magnetic surface capacity. The other is for the "quick switch" at the drain bung.

Another thing you can do if your van sits for weeks at a time,,,,, (but so far I'm one-hand-clapping here haven't heard or read of a single person doing this....) is park your van nose-up (a foot? ++ ?) so more of your heavy stuff is likely to settle near the drain hole.

When you do this plug swap to observe your magnet, you will drain off the bottom 8-16 oz? of oil. I did some observations last year WRT metal settling in (clear water-jugs of) gear oil and found that in 3 weeks, a lot of the metal settles to the bottom. Consequently, if your van has been parked for awhile (nose up) and you drain off the bottom ??8-16?? oz, you have reduced your metals. So in addition to looking at the magnet, you can reduce, AND observe the dregs of your oil too. Sort of a stool sample. Then replace it with 16 oz (or whatever volume came out) of fresh oil thru the oil filler.
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'90 Westy EJ25, NEW oil rings (!) 2Peloquins, 3knobs, SyncroShop pressure-oiled pinion-bearing & GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox.
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered original gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[SSWesty]

Good to know we have input from one source that says the Peloquin shouldn't contribute much. What I am learning from this discussion is I need to figure out a way to pull the magnet and check it out more frequently like every 5k. Now I am thinking about a little experiment. In the next week I am making about a 500 mile run so it would be interesting to see what the magnet picks up right after a clean refill. That sucker better be clean. I do consider oil to be much cheaper than tranny parts so I don't have an issue with more frequent changes.

Question, what tricks do you guys have for pulling the magnet and not making a huge mess? Do you have a second plug that you screw in or do you use some other type of plug?

[Sodo]

On the Peloquin, Tom Lengyel, (Syncroshop) who is a white-glove kinda guy, feels that the Peloquin contributes very little swarf, and is not a significant contributor. Ask him what your oil change interval is, he will say "I don't know - what does your magnet look like?". It's a chicken/egg scenario. Basically you have to look at your magnet. But can YOU look at your magnet? Not many can.

[SSWesty]

This is precisely why I started this thread was to figure out what normal should look like. Most of the folks posting seem to be pushing more HP so I can understand having a cleaner magnet would be good. Seems like my best comparison would be with what AndyBees and Wildthings posted. I do wonder how much the peloquin contributes to the build up on the magnet and I did a lot more towing in this last interval. We've been working on a house addition so Westy was been towing a lot of building materials in the last 9 months.

I wasn't clear on the oil change, I dumped the oil that was in there for 18k. For the next interval I was thinking about letting that run for 20k. However maybe sticking with a 10-15k service interval may be a better plan.

[Sodo]

[SSWesty]

This is the second oil change on my AA rebuild with a peloquin and stock gearing which pushes around a 2wd Westy. The first oil change I ran Valvoline 75w-90 dino oil and replaced it with Valvoline 75w-90 SYN Power full synthetic. During this interval I've tweaked the engine a little bit with a 2200 piston kit from Rocky and a few other minor adjustments which probably net an additional whopping 5hp. I am looking at about 18,000 miles on this change which probably included about 3,000 miles of towing trailers with weights between 500-2,000 pounds. Most of the miles have been with 27x8.5 Grabber AT tires. When travelling on trips which is where all my miles come from we tip the scales between 4,750-5,000 pounds.

In a few of the pictures posted it appears that metal seems to collect on one side of the magnet and in this change mine shows that too.

It looks like minimal wear so I'll probably stretch the next change out a little to a 20k interval. Note to self that will be at 133k

[Sodo]

On my Smallcar bellhousing, the drain hole was 12mm above the trans floor, no way to drain out the bad stuff on the bottom. It wasn't difficult to modify it to drain to the bottom.

Here it is after widening the hole and covering the top of the hole. Now that I have an inspectable filter (Weddle) I'm inclined to vacuum the trans floor into my filter so I can look at whats there.n I covered the top of the hole because I have a cooler/pump system and I did not want it to suck air.

Looks like RJES lets you drain to the bottom (or lower) so you can get the funk out between oil changes.

Anyway I wonder how well a drain plug magnet can really work from an intermediate position that's uphill.

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'90 Westy EJ25, NEW oil rings (!) 2Peloquins, 3knobs, SyncroShop pressure-oiled pinion-bearing & GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox.
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered original gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[Sodo]

This is good stuff.

Here's my magnet after 9,000 miles since rebuild. I found that the last rebuilder put in a USED pinion bearing, which nobody would expect to last very long especially with a 173 HP engine. It was worn to have 1/4 INCH of endplay. The amount of steel that rolled off this bearing is probably a strip 6 inches long, 1/2" wide and 1/16" thick. The magnet is MAXED, and displays only a TINY fraction of the metal volume known to be in my oil. It makes me cringe. I had to replace lots of stuff, both shafts, R&P. Here's a link to pics of the USED bearing.


This is a shorter magnetic plug from a Smallcar bellhousing. Also, oil was drained "cold".

I wonder ---- if ALL the drainplugs shown are approaching MAX capacity.

What if you cleaned it, and re-insert it in the old oil and look again in a week? You can do this (in the interest of science). You can put the old oil back in. I've heard of attaching a shop-vac to the oil filler bunghole and R&R the magnet. I wouldn't leave the vac running too long,,,, have a helper run the switch & get 'er done. Can plug the hole with the filler bung, shut off the vac & take your time. (I have NOT done this process, but I would ! )
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With the (obviously) rebuild, I'm adding a transaxle cooler system, with the weddle filter ---- but currently have no drainplug thus NO magnet. Kinda wish I had a magnet so I can compare to other members' fuzzy pics.
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'90 Westy EJ25, NEW oil rings (!) 2Peloquins, 3knobs, SyncroShop pressure-oiled pinion-bearing & GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox.
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered original gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[Syncro Jael]

[Jon_slider]

Fantastic documentation Syncro Jael!

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My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco

[Merian]

remove them to filter paper, flush with a solvent and you will find that the particles are actually quite small in size - they look larger due to magnetism holding them together

the only time to worry is when you find a huge accumulation or some large chunks of metal

[Syncro Jael]

Here are some photos of my transaxle magnet with about 20k miles on the rebuild. The last oil fluid change was at 6000 miles, so this magnet has a little over 13k miles.

This is my yearly or 10k mile gear oil change that I plan to keep records of.
I am a little over my mileage and under my yearly by a couple months.

I rotated the drain plug to get pics of each side. The one side is fairly clean. Possibly when pulling the plug with oil running on it?

I am again running Mobil Delvac 75/90.

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1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat)

[AndyBees]

Below is what my tranny oil drain plug looked like after 20k miles using regular spec dino oil. I re-filled it with regular dino oil again. After the 10k mile trip to Alaska this month, I will change again using synthetic.

DK tranny with the 4.57 R&P.

The tranny had all bearings replaced, except the pinion bearing.
I also installed a new 3rd and 4th gear (taller), new reverse gear, all new brass syncro rings, a new 3rd/4th shifting fork, and a new 3rd/4th hub.

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'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI, two trips to Alaska, 2014 & 16. 1989 Tin-top unmolested.
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine, seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003. 1975 Bay hopeful.

[Vanagon Nut]

It was suggested I post a pic of my rebuilt transaxle drain plug after first oil change. Apologies for the crappy image. Used my phone camera.

Nothing unusual (only small bits of metal) but then I've only ever looked at two other transaxle drain plugs.

Oil changed at just over 1000 miles.

Neil.

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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)

1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[boof1306]

A freshly rebuilt trans will "wear in" or "bed in" causing more metal fragments to be caught by the magnet. This is normal and unless large particles are on the magnet the "fuzz" is not an indication of anything. I always rub the matter on the magnet through my fingers to feel for anything significant. After a bedding in and a couple of oil changes I would expect a reduction in the quantity of material though.

[Wildthings]

This is the drain plug on my 1.8L Bay with an 091 tranny which has 50K miles on the last change of Pennzoil GL-4 oil.

[insyncro]

[Jon_slider]

[rmcd]