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otiswesty
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2006
Posts: 1779
Location: Portland
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 Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:53 am Post subject: |
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With a stock motor I would recommend the General Grabber AT 2 in the 27/8.5/14 for a 14" rim or the 205/75/15 on a 15" rim if you need a 15" rim. This is for off road use, although I run these year round. The 215/75/15 tire is 2.3" larger than stock, will stress your motor and will likely usher in a rebuild if you are over 150K miles. Ask me how I know...
Dont forget that there is a 195/75/14 BFG AT KO available again. This would be the best selection that does not deviate from stock size.
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1978 Sage Green P22 Westfalia
1988 T3 Syncro Single cab
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Jon_slider
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2007
Posts: 5091
Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:04 pm Post subject: Buy Shocks regardless what else you do. |
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Nokian Tires, Bilstein Shocks, Done!
Go here for your tires education: http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_1089_341/15-wheel-tire-package-rhein-nokians.html
If you stay with the Nokian in the above link, you don't need lift springs, and shocks alone will control your body roll. You do not need stiffer springs. Your shocks are worn out and are not doing their job, thats why you bounce more now than 20k miles ago..
If you want to run BFG AT Ko tires on 15" rims your choice is limited to the 215x75x15, and they are better suited to vans with upgraded horsepower. You Need lift springs to fit that tire. Unless you need lift, you dont need new springs. Shim as needed to level the rear if its low.
So, Option 1: Nokian tires, per link above, whatever shocks you decided on after talking to them. (definitely replace old cracked worn suspension bushings, source of Big Joy for the Buck)
Option 2: Same as Option 1, PLUS, more expensive shocks, lift springs you don't need for your Nokian tire with stock motor, 16" rims you don't need, your 15's are great, (hopefully correct ET, whatever they are.. post a pic of your van) 
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My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco |
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Merian
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014
Posts: 5212
Location: Orygun
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| hans j wrote: |
| Merian wrote: |
sports car guys are all over those - are they available for the Vanagon? |
I have some [digressive shocks]  I'm about so send another set to someone else for testing too. I'm months of work into them so far and just about have all the pieces I need. I haven't tested on my 2wd yet since the engine and trans are not installed, but I'll be installing them too. Height adjustable too of course.
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Do you own a shock dyno?
Keep us posted... |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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An affordable rear shock with rez:
Bilstein 5150
many lengths to choose from for different Vanagon configurations. |
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otiswesty
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2006
Posts: 1779
Location: Portland
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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For off road, that last thing I would do is put on 16" wheels. What you need is a good MT or AT tire with as much sidewall as you can get. That would typically mean going back to a 14" rim with the General 27/8.5/14 tires mentioned above. If you have larger brakes, then stay with 15" rims, you will have more tire choices with a 15" wheel as well. Keep within 10% of the stock tire size unless you plan to regear your ring and pinion. The 2" lift springs are okay for a little more ground clearance and approach angle, but you will start to eat CV joints interrmittently.
As for shocks, I went with the OME and blew out a set of rears in the first year. Floating washboard can really heat them up. I replaced them with the same and they have been good for 8 years including more Baja washboard than I can count. So if $ are an issue, I would not say a set of remote reservoir shocks is essential, not just bling but maybe worth doing if money is not an issue for you. They will lower the probability of blown seals, but that is not a game stopper on a back country vacation.
Lower your tire pressure to 18-20 PSI offroad and it will increase your traction and lower the transmitted vibration. Lots of guys on EP are just building garage queens, so don't be intimidated.
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1978 Sage Green P22 Westfalia
1988 T3 Syncro Single cab
Just a regular guy |
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hans j
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2006
Posts: 2746
Location: Salt Lake City UT
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Merian wrote: |
sports car guys are all over those - are they available for the Vanagon? |
I have some I'm about so send another set to someone else for testing too. I'm months of work into them so far and just about have all the pieces I need. I haven't tested on my 2wd yet since the engine and trans are not installed, but I'll be installing them too. Height adjustable too of course.
As far as the ExPo tire test, I think they only tested two tires that even get close to my size (215/75-15). I wouldn't mind trying something else, but they aren't broken. Just rotate often.
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1986 Canadian Syncro Westy TDI - 1989 Syncro Single Cab - 2001 Audi S4 - 1981 VW Caddy ABA - 1980 VW Caddy EV - 1973 VW T-181 |
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DAV!D
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2013
Posts: 980
Location: EL CAMINO
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeff's Old Volks Home wrote: |
| luVWagn wrote: |
| Also note that BFG AT tires are not that great according to this tire review from Expedition Portal. I'm likely to take their lead and do Cooper Discoverer AT3 for my set of 16" tires. |
Expedition Portal just reviewed the latest BFG. It wasn't available for the first test...it looks much better, not as good as the Cooper, but still better than the old BFG. |
Older BFGs were not that great either, I went through two sets on my former Tacoma and both sets were dry rotting long before the tread life came to an end.
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86 Syncro Build - Ecotec Motor Swap - Pop Top Conversion - Camper Build & Syncro Conversion |
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Jake de Villiers
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 5938
Location: Tsawwassen, BC
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Merian
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014
Posts: 5212
Location: Orygun
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| hans j wrote: |
I feel the Bilstein digressive valving is the best overall.
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sports car guys are all over those - are they available for the Vanagon? |
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Merian
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014
Posts: 5212
Location: Orygun
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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sounds like somebody needs to manf. an adjustable shock w/o a remote res.
hard to believe no one has taken the shocks off of a late-model caddy and adapted them to a Van - I know you guys will try anything... |
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levi
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2005
Posts: 5522
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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So in looking back at my records the 5660 initially added about 1-1/2".
Keep in mind though that this was a heavy van at the time, several hundred pounds from the high top, several hundred more with the tube bumpers, and at least another 1,000 pounds of tools and crap inside.
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One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
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Going down that long lonesome highway,
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hans j
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2006
Posts: 2746
Location: Salt Lake City UT
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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In my experience, only the rears need to be external reservoir for off road use. My front shocks are ice cold after very rough roads.
I believe the Fox are only rebound adjustable, and it just changes the size of the oil bleed off orifice. I feel the Bilstein digressive valving is the best overall.
It's all personal preference though. Ride in a couple before you spend the money!
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levi
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2005
Posts: 5522
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Jake de Villiers wrote: |
Levi and Mad: do either of you have a ride height number for the Moog springs?
Thanks! |
I was at 17" in the front with the moog 5660 when I pulled them.
I know they lifted the front when I installed them, compared to the original 85 springs, but I'd have to check just how much.
I think it was in the 1/2" to 3/4" range.
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One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way
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davevickery
Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2005
Posts: 2887
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Regarding the Moog 5660. I recommend the 5658 which has a lower spring rate, but still pretty stiff (maybe more than I like but the handling is worth it). The 5660 fit fine, but the 5658 fit PERFECTLY. I'd say the the ride height is only 3/8" less than the 5660. So if ride height is your priority, maybe the 5658 aren't better. But I have used the 5660 and the 5658 and I would recommend the latter. 16.75" ride height on a Westy (just measured it again after a year-no sag). Matched to GW zero lifts in the back. |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Merian wrote: |
I just don't understand what magic the fox shocks would bring if don't race off-road. Remote reservoirs exist to limit heat problems which should not be a big issue in normal use.
what you want: digressive, magnetorheological
what you want to understand what shocks do: your Soph. physics course covered this - just write out the equations of motion for the wheel displacement for a bump, and differentiate it - you're there! right there in DHO heaven! |
The beauty of the Fox and other coil over type shocks is adjustability.
Not only ride height, but compression and rebound.
Read a few threads where owners just kick down for new shocks, only to not like the feel they provide...not a problem when adjustable.
Pair a too soft or too hard spring with an adjustable shock and with a bit of experimentation, you have a comfortable ride.
I have always leveled a van from rear to the front and use the adjustability of these types of shocks to achieve the percise height I desire.
Not hacking up cutting boards and stuffing them above the springs.
Add in progressive rate springs and stacking will create coil binding.
Not with coilover type shocks.
Worth every penny in my opinion and more than Fox are available, but they are where the price point starts, so if they seem high to you, move on. |
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Merian
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014
Posts: 5212
Location: Orygun
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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I just don't understand what magic the fox shocks would bring if don't race off-road. Remote reservoirs exist to limit heat problems which should not be a big issue in normal use.
what you want: digressive, magnetorheological
what you want to understand what shocks do: your Soph. physics course covered this - just write out the equations of motion for the wheel displacement for a bump, and differentiate it - you're there! right there in DHO heaven! |
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Jake de Villiers
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 5938
Location: Tsawwassen, BC
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| madspaniard wrote: |
| Jake de Villiers wrote: |
Levi and Mad: do either of you have a ride height number for the Moog springs?
Thanks! |
Ranging from 17 to 17.5" |
I see. So your ride height went up then?
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madspaniard
Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2008
Posts: 3795
Location: Alameda, CA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Jake de Villiers wrote: |
Levi and Mad: do either of you have a ride height number for the Moog springs?
Thanks! |
Ranging from 17 to 17.5"
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1991 Westy auto w/ Peloquin TBD
"The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad” - Salvador Dali |
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Jake de Villiers
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Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 5938
Location: Tsawwassen, BC
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madspaniard
Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2008
Posts: 3795
Location: Alameda, CA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:56 am Post subject: |
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I have the latest gen of syncro.org springs, sold by VanCafe, and Koni shocks. Poly bushings, Nokian tires, Burley tubular arms and front anti sway bar. Really happy with this set up, it took me a while to find the correct combination of parts, a lot of trial and error when you deviate from OEM. I recommend you install the anti sway bar, T3 Technique offers a new one.
I also have tried Moogs 5660 in the front but ended up sticking with syncro.org springs. My low-miles Moog 5660 are for sale in the classifieds for cheap.
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1991 Westy auto w/ Peloquin TBD
"The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad” - Salvador Dali |
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