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davevickery
Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2005
Posts: 2887
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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 Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 9:52 am Post subject: Re: Wheel Pros help me select syncro tires |
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My only qualm with the 215/70-16 is that you also have a higher 4th gear. Otherwise that is a great size for the van and there are lots of choices.
When you go down to 215/65 there are fewer choices and the tires require more pressure to carry the same load. I have the BFG 215/65-16 and I think they give a slightly harsh ride on bumps and gravel, mores o than I remember with the 215/75-15 BFGs. I am assuming the 215/70-16 would feel more like 215-75-15 since it is also a C load and very similar in size.
On my 1.8T with a boost guage, you could see how much more you were stressing the engine in 4th gear than in 3rd going up a long grade. It was cool not to have to shift down going up a 6% grade, but the boost would jump from around 8psi to 14psi to go the same speed in 4th gear. Somehow that probably relates to strain on the transaxle too, so shifting down iand going a little slower isn't so bad. With a taller 4th and the bigger tires, you will probably have to shift down more. But the 1.8T felt really nice to me cruising at 3500 RPMs. At 4K rpm it felt to me like it wanted another gear. The engine was fine and stayed cool at higher rpm, but you can hear the engine more than stock so it always made me want to shift up or slow down.
My conclusion would be to give the 215/70 a try and if you don't like how it does in 4th gear, you can easily sell them and go smaller. That is a popular size and there would be someone happy to take them off your hands. |
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Waldi
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Joined: February 28, 2014
Posts: 1752
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 5:25 am Post subject: Re: Wheel Pros help me select syncro tires |
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Naah, Hankook is the man ;P
http://www.hankooktire.com/uk/passenger-cars/hankook-dynapro-mt-rt03.html
Driving my van with the 215/75-15 which i use only on for Corsica or heavy snow conditions.
On a 15km offroat track to Lotu beach for fishing with some friends.
In 2-wd mode for more chalange/fun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGG5kxJkpV0
Ontopic:
I think you will need 20mm spacers for your rims.
Any drop of revs due to longer ratio/tires means more load on engine/gearbox with same driving style.
Forgot again how i show the youtube vid right in the post ? |
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syncrodoka
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Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12352
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: Wheel Pros help me select syncro tires |
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BFGs are a really good tire, if you are only going to occasionally offroad a tire with a different pattern could get you more MPG.
If you are happy with BFGs then go for it.
BFGs is fun to say
BFGs |
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Jon_slider
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2007
Posts: 5091
Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: Wheel Pros help me select syncro tires |
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yes if you want the 10% tall tire and the extra 1.25 inches of ground clearance. This is by far the most popular tire choice for a syncro, along with its 15" equivalent the 215x75x15, whose taller sidewall favors aired down use Offroad.
I don't get the sense you are the type to be airing down Offroad much. I don't suppose you own and carry an aircompressor, nor have any plans to drive on sand, right?
For your road prioritized use, I would strongly consider this 215x65x16 BFG AT K02, which is a 27" tire, and 6% taller than stock, and still gives you .75" added clearance (instead of the 28" one above).
I recommend you inflate that tire to 42psi front, 50psi rear.
Waldi would pick the 215x65x16 also, for your road car priorities, I think you should strongly consider it. It happens to be an even stronger stiffer construction than the 215x70x16. this would be the more stable tire for road use, but less likely to be used Offroad, particularly less likely to be aired down as much as a higher profile 215x70x16 or 215x75x15
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=...;tab=Sizes
the RPM difference between the 215x70x16 and the 215x65x16 is 4%. That is, the x70 tire will drop your RPM by an extra 120rpm at 71mph, thats on top of the 6% which drops your 71mph RPM by 240rpm...
the 215x65x16 bfg is a direct competitor to the same size Nokia Rotiiva.
now that were here, if you assume the 215x65x16 is a good match for your needs, all you have to do is determine the price difference and decide how much you wan to pay to get a D rated tire, instead of a Passenger XL tire..
for me the D rated tire would be the only choice.. Im not into Passenger rated tires at all.. I suspect Waldi and I agree on this also.
ps
> Audi a6 wheels : 16" x 7". 42mm offset
you will want to talk to T3Technique about spacers
pps
be aware that since you have lift springs, your wheel wells will look fuller, more appropriate, with the 28" tire, than the 27", which will have more empty space between the rubber and the fender. You decide how you feel about the look of smallish wheels on a lifted Van.. the 28" would be my pick, in this particular criteria
people that avoid the 28" tire, dont have lifts, and it rubs, you would not have that issue, since you have a lift
similarly people with 2wd and no lift, will prefer the 27" tire, cause it won't rub
decisions, decisions..
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Last edited by Jon_slider on Sun May 28, 2017 8:41 pm; edited 6 times in total |
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casey79westfalia
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Joined: May 22, 2003
Posts: 1724
Location: Baltimore
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: Wheel Pros help me select syncro tires |
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| syncrodoka wrote: |
| Jon_slider wrote: |
| I have not heard of any 1.8t transaxle problems, not even from Stephans vastly powerful chipped Syncro. |
I know someone that went through 2 trannys.
Back to the topic. |
Makes me feel confident about the bfgs. We'll were they using bfgs? I like saying bfgs.
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syncrodoka
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12352
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: Wheel Pros help me select syncro tires |
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| Jon_slider wrote: |
| I have not heard of any 1.8t transaxle problems, not even from Stephans vastly powerful chipped Syncro. |
I know someone that went through 2 trannys.
Back to the topic. |
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casey79westfalia
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Joined: May 22, 2003
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Location: Baltimore
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Jon_slider
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2007
Posts: 5091
Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: Wheel Pros help me select syncro tires |
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> 1.8t syncro guys where are you??
out driving, because they took my tire advice and don't need to entertain themselves online
My friend Ubercool has a 1.8t in a syncro. He runs 215x75x15 BFG AT Ko tires that are the same diameter as the 215x70x16 option Im proposing to you. He has the stock .85 4th, so his overall gearing is 10% tall. No transmission failures. He is very happy with how the car drives. He turns off the chip Offroad, for crawling.
My friend Vwhead has a 1.8t in a syncro single cab, he runs 225x75x16 BFG AT Ko tires, he is very happy, no transmission failures. The gearing is a bit tall offloading, but he manages very well. He wanted the extra ground clearance, the tire is 16% taller than stock and has that effect on RPM
Vwhead also has a 1.8t in a 2wd, that he put 215x75x15 BFG AT Ko tires on. It runs great, same 10% tall gearing that Ubercool uses.
I have not heard of any 1.8t transaxle problems, not even from Stephans vastly powerful chipped Syncro.
Imo the 1.8t is the least likely motor to be associated with tranny failures. Part of the reason is that it can use higher RPMs than stock. High RPMs are less destructive than low RPM power
Waldi has the exact same tire size, yes its a diesel, but that makes no difference in terms of the forces the tire exerts on the transmission. If anything, his diesel is more destructive than your 1.8t, because it has higher torque levels at lower rpm.. iow high amplitude, low frequency pulses, that are more destructive than the lower amplitude higher frequency power pulses of the 1.8t
You will be fine with 10% tall tires, even with your .82 4th, that Waldi also uses.
Just try to understand that lower RPM is less powerful, so don’t fool yourself into avoiding going over 4000rpm on hills, it is healthier for your motor and tranny, than lugging uphill under increasing throttle pedal travel, to keep RPM down.
It is a myth that lower rpm produces higher gas mileage. The only thing lower rpm is good for, is it makes less noise. We are used to modern cars that downshift to 2000rpm when cruising on the flats. This is not “normal” for a 4 speed Vanagon. 4000rpm is closer to the power band, and the power output and fuel efficiency is higher at that rpm
imnsho, the 215x70x16 tire, which is 28" diameter, and reduces RPM by 10%, is the sweet spot for the`1.8t motor.. you won't be sorry
Enjoy your new Tires!, whatever they may be
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casey79westfalia
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Joined: May 22, 2003
Posts: 1724
Location: Baltimore
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 3:42 pm Post subject: Re: Wheel Pros help me select syncro tires |
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You all are confusing me. 😊 so here the simple truth. I want some feed back from people with a 1.8t conversion and 16" wheels. Mileage, rpms in 4th gear at top speed??I do have a decoupler and will probably be driving the vehicle most of the time in 2wd. I'm sure the syncro will take me off road at one point or another. It really sounds like it comes down to tire sidewall height and load rating. The 1.8t is a pretty tolerant motor I am told, but I would like to keep the rpms similar to what they would have been in the Jetta gli they came out of originally. 1.8t syncro guys where are you??
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87 Westfalia Syncro "Phoenix"
88 Double Cab
76 Porsche 914
2014 Audi Q7
2010 Tdi Sportwagen
Currently looking for 62 Double Cab, 66 Westfalia Parts!
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"Do it the right way, or you'll pay for it" |
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Waldi
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2014
Posts: 1752
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: Wheel Pros help me select syncro tires |
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Jon is trying to confuse you.
I am driving my 215/70 Goodyear Wrangler HP on a diesel which has his torque peak at about 2200revs. Over 4k revs no more power like on every 1,9 diesel.
And i use them mostly driving an empty syncro over the highway.
I am not driving in USA where you will be shot if you dont hold on with the traffic. So i slow down going uphill to save fuel. I am also not beeing forced to drive contant 75. I am free to drive how fast i want on highways without speed limit.
I realy dont care what tires you pick.
If you want spend money on ppl selling van parts, take the biggest, as they have the best look. |
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Jon_slider
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2007
Posts: 5091
Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: Wheel Pros help me select syncro tires |
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| casey79westfalia wrote: |
| Bfgs are hard on the trans? |
Waldi is confusing you. He actually uses the same tire size I am recommending to you:
see here:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8453312&highlight=215+70-16#8453312
| Waldi wrote: |
i use ... 215/70-16
... 4,85x0,82 ratio. |
that is the exact same size tire I am recommending to you!
to explain
Waldi and I agree that tiny tires are easier on your transmission, but he defines tiny to include the tire size Im recommending
Waldi and I agree that the taller 4th in your Van, the .82, is harder on the tranny because its taller, than the stock .85. BUT Waldi also uses the same ring and pinion and the same .82 4th you do!
Waldi and I agree that going 55mph is easier on your tranny than going 75mph.. This is very true, but not very real world in USA, people here go faster than 65mph
so. will the 215x70x16 BFG ruin your tranny, no, not if you don't go 75mph for 4plus hours at a time. Will your .82 4th ruin your tranny, no, not if you are willing to use 3rd gear on steep grades, instead of lugging the motor uphill below 3500rpm when it can't hold steady speed.
Moral of the story, don't drive too fast, for too long, in very hot weather. Consider monitoring your tranny temp with a heat gun. Take a break if temps go over 180F
enjoy your ride!
oh and yes, the 215x70x16 CAN fit the spare location, IF you get the van cafe spare carrier, or a rear mounted carrier
and yes, a Passenger Tire like they Rotiiva can work on a Van, but it is far from ideal in load capacity and sidewall construction
and yes, there are other nokians that are stronger construction, but unfortunately many are directional, you have to choose carefully.
oh, and about Syncros with VCs.. they increase wear on the tranny, you would be wise to decouple on pavement.
good luck with your decisions
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ThankYouJerry
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Joined: September 01, 2012
Posts: 2271
Location: Shakedown Street
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 10:41 am Post subject: Re: Wheel Pros help me select syncro tires |
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| Jon_slider wrote: |
| Skidub wrote: |
If you can find somewhere that you can push on the sidewall of an unmounted Rotiiva and an unmounted KO2 you'll be amazed at the difference. The KO2 sidewall is super stiff in comparison.
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I agree the BFG has much stronger construction.
The Nokia Rotiiva 215x65x16 is a 26 pound XL rated Passenger tire.
The BFG AT Ko2 215x65x16 tire is a 34 pound D rated Light Truck tire. |
Yes, and that's also the difference with the Nokian WRC3 tires... they are also D rated. Much stiffer sidewall than the Rotiiva. I'll also add that despite the mildly aggressive tread pattern the WRC3s are very quiet. Noticeably quieter than my last set of WRG2s (which I thought were very good tires yet not an aggressive tread pattern at all).
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BUGSLEE
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Joined: July 15, 2012
Posts: 48
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 10:20 am Post subject: Re: Wheel Pros help me select syncro tires |
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I went with a 215/70/16 BFG A/T ko2's after having the original BFG A/T ko's on stock 14's on my last van.
The new KO2's are MUCH quieter and ride a lot smoother. I think they make a great tire as long as your not running a stock engine plus they look great on a syncro.
I have a taller 4th gear and a subi 2.5 but I cruise at 3200 RPM doing 65MPH
Kyle
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rubbachicken
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Joined: October 05, 2004
Posts: 3058
Location: socal
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 7:50 am Post subject: Re: Wheel Pros help me select syncro tires |
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i can't remember, do you have a swing out tire carrier, if you do not, don't go bigger than a 216/65/16.
i have genral grabbers, 216/65/16 on burni, my syncro, and have got the 5th one under the front, i had to massage the metal a little to get it under there, but it's in, i tried with a friends 215/70/16 and that one was a no go, i have clearance above it, and have no need for a bracket to keep the wheel away from the steering shaft under there from the rack to the wheel
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Waldi
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Joined: February 28, 2014
Posts: 1752
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 6:46 am Post subject: Re: Wheel Pros help me select syncro tires |
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Its not the Bfg, its the size. If you get 65 of them you only take - the profile consums more fuel and it is noisy.
And it has not the rim safty belt like the genaral grabber with the same look.
On a Syncro you dont need profile for offroad because you have syncro.
If you want with a 2-wd going offroad open profile makes sense.
At all, you need the bfg or grabber just for the look.
No more pros, only contras. |
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casey79westfalia
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2003
Posts: 1724
Location: Baltimore
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 6:03 am Post subject: Re: Wheel Pros help me select syncro tires |
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Thanks for all the feedback gentlemen. I really like the bfgs, I mean they look great on a syncro or any van. I have them on my doka and wasn't completely thrilled as they were a little noisy, it's a 2wd. I guess you pay to play. I think I want a somewhat aggressive looking tire since heck it's a syncro. Bfgs are hard on the trans?
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66 Westfalia
87 Westfalia Syncro "Phoenix"
88 Double Cab
76 Porsche 914
2014 Audi Q7
2010 Tdi Sportwagen
Currently looking for 62 Double Cab, 66 Westfalia Parts!
(Rear seat and pedestal, bumpers, mirrors)
http://www.baycountrymotors.com
My 87 Syncro Westfalia 1.8t Restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=418933
"Do it the right way, or you'll pay for it" |
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Waldi
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2014
Posts: 1752
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 3:46 am Post subject: Re: Wheel Pros help me select syncro tires |
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| Jon_slider wrote: |
| casey79westfalia wrote: |
| Thanks Jon slider. Looks like the rotiva is the one. Now to find the cheapest dealer. |
ok, but, now to play devils advocate, from an Offroad syncro perspective
I would choose the BFG AT Ko2 in size 215x70x16.
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=All-Terrain+T%2FA+KO2
imo Syncros deserve BFGs
yes its a bigger heavier tire, but, your motor can definitely handle it. And then you can run, or at least pose, with the Big Dogs. 
before you make a final decision, look at these two tread photos and ask yourself, What would Chris do?
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What are again the pros of a 70 offroad tire (used 99% onraod) to a 65 HP tire on a syncro ?
pose, with the Big Dogs.
the look
the engine can handle it
And than you ppl cry about your gearbox LOL
Edit:
I would take the Pirelli Scorpion STR
https://www.reifendirekt.de/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?dsco=...p=R-106221
or if you like the "smell of big dogs" the Genaral Grabber AT2
https://www.reifendirekt.de/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?dsco=...p=R-106221
Both have a design to protect your rims. |
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Jon_slider
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2007
Posts: 5091
Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 1:03 am Post subject: Re: Wheel Pros help me select syncro tires |
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| Skidub wrote: |
If you can find somewhere that you can push on the sidewall of an unmounted Rotiiva and an unmounted KO2 you'll be amazed at the difference. The KO2 sidewall is super stiff in comparison.
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I agree the BFG has much stronger construction.
The Nokia Rotiiva 215x65x16 is a 26 pound XL rated Passenger tire.
The BFG AT Ko2 215x65x16 tire is a 34 pound D rated Light Truck tire.
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Steve M.
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Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6932
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 11:07 pm Post subject: Re: Wheel Pros help me select syncro tires |
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| Skidub wrote: |
I too went with the Nokian Rotiiva ATs, temporarily.
The other 15%, when I didn't like them they felt squishy, unstable, and dangerous. Typically this was in windy conditions at highway speed.
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What air pressures were you running? When I had the Syncro on the road I was driving freeway speeds and in windy conditions too and never felt a problem with them with cross winds off the ocean.
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Skidub
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Posts: 204
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 10:45 pm Post subject: Re: Wheel Pros help me select syncro tires |
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To restate, I'm no pro, but for reasons similar to what the OP has stated, I too went with the Nokian Rotiiva ATs, temporarily.
When I had 15" wheels I was running on 215/75r15 BFG KOs. Loved them. When I found my 16" CLK's I switched to the 215/65r16 102 Rotiivas. I liked the Rotiivas a lot, about 85% of the time.
The other 15%, when I didn't like them they felt squishy, unstable, and dangerous. Typically this was in windy conditions at highway speed.
It could just be me, and how my van is set up, but I switched back to the BFGs and problem solved. 100% satisfied.
If you can find somewhere that you can push on the sidewall of an unmounted Rotiiva and an unmounted KO2 you'll be amazed at the difference. The KO2 sidewall is super stiff in comparison.
Consider all of this as just another data point in your analysis. Good luck.
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