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Cusser
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Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 33103
Location: Hot Arizona
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 Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: Height of fuel pump spacer |
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I'd measure the spacer height on my two VWs, but I'd have to dig through my records as one has the original factory spacer, one has a replacement. But since the 1835cc engine is now in the 1971 and the 1600cc now in the 1970, can't remember if the replacement was done before I swapped engines.
I know the 1971 was the VW where I broke the stand; I was (foolishly) trying to quell an oil seepage issue, thought it might be from under the stand.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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wayne1230cars
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Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 2691
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:48 am Post subject: Re: Height of fuel pump spacer |
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Interesting thread. There is at least one other size. The aftermarket spacer that I removed recently was 13.81 mm. This spacer was about 30 years old and had the VW/Audi logo, the same as the new CIP1 spacer pic that I posted earlier. It had not been machined.
As far as these height differences being significant I think there are some variables. When I removed my old pump, a 30 year old “cheapie”, the pushrod protrusion measurement was only 10.55 mm - 2.45 mm under the recommended 13 mm. That was with a worn pushrod - 107.4 mm. Car ran OK but generally did not get a lot of high speed highway use anymore. My theory is that this “cheapie pump “ was putting out a higher pressure, as many of them did, and this compensated for the thicker spacer.
The optimal VW spec of 13mm of pushrod protrusion assumed a fuel pump that was putting out the proper pressure. That was a given “back in the day” but not so much anymore.
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bnam
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2006
Posts: 3463
Location: El Dorado Hills CA/ Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:08 am Post subject: Re: Height of fuel pump spacer |
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Another one...
So far, these seem to be in 3 thickness ranges - 12.2ish, 12.7ish, 13.2ish.
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79563
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:02 am Post subject: Re: Height of fuel pump spacer |
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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bnam
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2006
Posts: 3463
Location: El Dorado Hills CA/ Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:58 am Post subject: Re: Height of fuel pump spacer |
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I measured a VW 303 flange at 12.75mm. From a 1600
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1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL
Last edited by bnam on Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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wcfvw69
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Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13682
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:32 am Post subject: Re: Height of fuel pump spacer |
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As I mentioned above, there was a seller on ebay selling a NOS made in the 60's flange with a similar picture of yours and the same part number and logo on it. I reached out to him to measure it. He came back with a measurement of 12.2mm. Couple that with me getting the same measurements from two of my original flanges on my engines, and the mystery continues in my mind.
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Meiang
Samba Member
Joined: September 27, 2016
Posts: 660
Location: Perth, Western Australia
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:33 pm Post subject: Re: Height of fuel pump spacer |
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I have access to five fuel pump stands which were fitted to to new VW industrial engines (with a generator) and all had only one gasket fitted either side of the fuel pump intermediate flange.
The fuel pump intermediate flange is 12.74mm thick. |
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Meiang
Samba Member
Joined: September 27, 2016
Posts: 660
Location: Perth, Western Australia
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:17 pm Post subject: Re: Height of fuel pump spacer |
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Quote:
So, it's possible that the 113 127 303 stand made in the 60's and early 70's was 12.2mm and the later version 113 127 303C is 12.7mm.
Glenn, do you still have that NOS VW stand that measured 12.7mm? If so, does it have this 303c part number?
The photograph below is of a spacer from late 1967/early 1968 and has a measurement of 12.8mm
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Floating VW
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Joined: April 28, 2015
Posts: 1623
Location: The South Zone
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: Height of fuel pump spacer |
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I've got the same one: 040.127.303.1, and it has the VW logo. I just went out and measured mine. I got 0.519" (13.18mm). I'm with kreemoweet on this one; a fraction of a millimeter isn't a big cause for concern.
Oh, in case you're wondering, I cut that circular groove around the pushrod hole to help the excess oil that creeps up the pushrod drip back down the shaft and into the engine case, instead of spilling over and filling up those "reservoirs" in the stand. I don't know why I worry about stupid things like that, but I do.
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kreemoweet
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Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 4099
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: Height of fuel pump spacer |
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Hey now, we're not done yet: I have a pump stand, with VW logo, has part No. 040.127.303.1
cast into it. The flange is 13.05 mm thick. IMO, all these slight thickness variations are insignificant,
plus or minus a gasket's thickness, which will not affect pump operation to any practical degree.
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wcfvw69
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Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13682
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:26 am Post subject: Re: Height of fuel pump spacer |
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| TK-CS wrote: |
| wcfvw69 wrote: |
| I've heard reports that the type 3 engines used a different stand but that dose not make sense either. |
I always supposed that the Type 3 engine used the same part, but never checked the parts catalogue for reference.
But afaik the Type 3 pump gets a different pretension setting of the diaphragm than the Type 1 pump. |
There were a couple of pretension jigs sold by VW. One set the lower diaphragm to 14mm in the mid 60's and the other to 13mm afterward. The big difference in the type 3 pump was the main diaphragm spring wire was just a touch thicker. It gave the type 3 Pierburg pumps more PSI.
I've measured the spring wire on the diaphragm springs from the type 1 and type 3 pumps that had never been apart personally and found that wire thicker on the type 3.
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TK-CS
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Joined: April 15, 2019
Posts: 279
Location: D - Deutschland
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:18 am Post subject: Re: Height of fuel pump spacer |
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| wcfvw69 wrote: |
| I've heard reports that the type 3 engines used a different stand but that dose not make sense either. |
I always supposed that the Type 3 engine used the same part, but never checked the parts catalogue for reference.
But afaik the Type 3 pump gets a different pretension setting of the diaphragm than the Type 1 pump.
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wcfvw69
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Joined: June 10, 2004
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Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:16 am Post subject: Re: Height of fuel pump spacer |
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| Q-Dog wrote: |
| The VW part sticker on the bag has a "c" in the part number. |
I missed that! Good catch. So, it appears we have the answer then. The 303C was a bit thicker than the 303 though we don't know why VW did that.
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Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
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Q-Dog
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wcfvw69
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Joined: June 10, 2004
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Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:01 am Post subject: Re: Height of fuel pump spacer |
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I'm going to note this for future searchers of this information on fuel pump stands.
I spoke with a retired VW parts manager at a dealership from the late 60's and early 70's. He also said he wasn't aware of two different fuel pump stands. He did however state-
The original VW Part Number for those Blocks were 113 127 303. In the 1997 VW Parts Price Book the Number has now become 113 127 303 C indicating some changes have been made to the part but not what those changes were. There doesn't appear to be two different blocks available at the same time.
So, it's possible that the 113 127 303 stand made in the 60's and early 70's was 12.2mm and the later version 113 127 303C is 12.7mm.
Glenn, do you still have that NOS VW stand that measured 12.7mm? If so, does it have this 303c part number?
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Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
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The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13682
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:21 pm Post subject: Re: Height of fuel pump spacer |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| wcfvw69 wrote: |
I saw a guy selling an NOS VW made, bakelite fuel pump stand with the correct VW part number on ebay. I reached out to him and asked him to measure the base thickness. He said it was 12.20 mm which is right in line with the measurements of the original VW stands on my VW's I measured.
It's really kind of odd that there were two different height stands from what folks are posting here. I've heard reports that the type 3 engines used a different stand but that dose not make sense either.
I wonder if the 12.7 mm stands were for the alternator fuel pumps with the 100 mm push rod.
Anyone have an original alternator equipped engine with the original fuel pump stand in place? |
Bill,
Type 1 "alternator" and "Generator" pumps use the same flange... so does the Type 3.
All the same part number. |
Weird, huh? Why two different height pump stands then? Your picture showed 12.7mm on a VW stand while the NOS stand from the 60's matched my originals in my VW's of 12.2 
Again, at the end of the day, the key measurement is that the fuel pump push rod measures 13mm above the plastic stand.
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Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
40+ years of VW repair, and VW parts and vehicle restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79563
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: Height of fuel pump spacer |
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| wcfvw69 wrote: |
I saw a guy selling an NOS VW made, bakelite fuel pump stand with the correct VW part number on ebay. I reached out to him and asked him to measure the base thickness. He said it was 12.20 mm which is right in line with the measurements of the original VW stands on my VW's I measured.
It's really kind of odd that there were two different height stands from what folks are posting here. I've heard reports that the type 3 engines used a different stand but that dose not make sense either.
I wonder if the 12.7 mm stands were for the alternator fuel pumps with the 100 mm push rod.
Anyone have an original alternator equipped engine with the original fuel pump stand in place? |
Bill,
Type 1 "alternator" and "Generator" pumps use the same flange... so does the Type 3.
All the same part number.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13682
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: Height of fuel pump spacer |
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I saw a guy selling an NOS VW made, bakelite fuel pump stand with the correct VW part number on ebay. I reached out to him and asked him to measure the base thickness. He said it was 12.20 mm which is right in line with the measurements of the original VW stands on my VW's I measured.
It's really kind of odd that there were two different height stands from what folks are posting here. I've heard reports that the type 3 engines used a different stand but that dose not make sense either.
I wonder if the 12.7 mm stands were for the alternator fuel pumps with the 100 mm push rod.
Anyone have an original alternator equipped engine with the original fuel pump stand in place?
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
40+ years of VW repair, and VW parts and vehicle restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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wayne1230cars
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Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 2691
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:49 am Post subject: Re: Height of fuel pump spacer |
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New pump is installed and working great. Kudos to Bill for the high quality of his rebuild work. Managed to get very close to the 13 mm spec with the new fuel pump rod and spacer.
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Meiang
Samba Member
Joined: September 27, 2016
Posts: 660
Location: Perth, Western Australia
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| Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:28 pm Post subject: Re: Height of fuel pump spacer |
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Original fuel pump from 1968 (used - 500,000+ miles):
Fuel pump push rod = 107.80mm
Fuel pump spacer = 12.80mm
New fuel pump from new VW industrial motor:
Fuel pump push rod = 107.80mm
Fuel pump spacer = 12.74mm
The used fuel pump push rod had a polished flat end with a slight concave where is touched the fuel pump lever. Other than that there was no difference between the two.
All parts were original German Volkswagen. |
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