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busdaddy Samba Member

Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 53173 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:28 pm Post subject: Re: Is it possible to retrofit a firewall to a 1968? |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| Most people should not be throwing disc brakes on these cars to get ‘ better braking’ , they should be fixing their drum brakes first. If you don’t know why not, you definitely shouldn’t be doing it. |
Exactly, stuff like that is usually the result of magazines promoting what their advertisers are selling, as mentioned above you have to "weed through" opinions and answers to boil it down to the facts.
As for the price of seals?, consider the tooling required to make the parts, that's a major investment by itself, and then sitting on a batch of the product until it sells makes the bank grumpy. Be happy somebody went to the trouble to make parts for a 50 year old machine. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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sodbuster Samba Member

Joined: August 08, 2004 Posts: 1134 Location: wherever my baywindow takes me.
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Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: Is it possible to retrofit a firewall to a 1968? |
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| Thoragaverung wrote: |
I saw the bus yesterday. It's remarkably rust-free, especially for Minnesota, but needs a lot. I am toting up the parts costs now.
Why do rubber seal kits costs so darn much? LOL. |
Most aftermarket companies like west coast metric and wolfsberg west offer "whole bus" rubber kits. One part number does the majority of the bus for one price. offered for passenger models and campers.  |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 24357 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:45 am Post subject: Re: Is it possible to retrofit a firewall to a 1968? |
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The people who do answer know their sh*, and will state their opinions too.
The debate over opinion vs facts is easy to sort out and may or may not be relevant to your situation.
Most people should not be throwing disc brakes on these cars to get ‘ better braking’ , they should be fixing their drum brakes first. If you don’t know why not, you definitely shouldn’t be doing it. _________________ 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🍊 🍊 🍊 |
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Thoragaverung Samba Member

Joined: September 15, 2018 Posts: 81 Location: Saint Paul
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Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:54 am Post subject: Re: Is it possible to retrofit a firewall to a 1968? |
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| fez68 wrote: |
| Sometimes its better to search threads for an answer rather than ask it. Its seems like the same people always answer and then they all get into an argument and your sitting there still without an answer. |
I did do a search first. Maybe I did it poorly but I didn't find much about firewall retrofits. Just about how to remove them for gas line replacements.
TheSamba is one of the most info-rich forums I've seen, and I've been on many, depending on which project car I've been obsessively working on.
My wife asked me last week how many different cars I've owned. I didn't tell her. The answer is 34, and about 24 of those weren't daily drivers. My dailies tend to be nicer going-to-town rigs that I keep 6 to 8 years. All the rest of those cars were projects that I fixed up, enjoyed, and then sold on.
I suspect a Westy will be in a new class: a project car I fix up, enjoy, and actually keep. I'm getting close to retirement now and I'd like to continue enjoy camping but maybe without having to crawl muddily into a tent and sleep with my back on hard tree roots. _________________ Happy to help, but my advice comes with no guarantees. Use at own risk. |
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Angus II Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2016 Posts: 724 Location: Mammoth Lakes Ca. 93546
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:30 pm Post subject: Re: Is it possible to retrofit a firewall to a 1968? |
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Hello, ^^^
Ditto, on what he said about the 71 Baywindows.
A very classic year. Hence: the one year only parts/options and upgrades. The last of the Mohicans as to say, for the type I engine for the U.S. market export in the VW bus.
Three is a good start...harder to find these days in decent condition though, let alone stock configuration .
But. I'm a cheap old bastard, that doesn't like to do rusted panel repairs anymore and correcting previous owners bright ideas... Yet, 71s were easier to find unmolested and less weathered 20-25 years ago...
I'm glad I found Gus, my latest 71 full westy bus... from the original family/owners, pretty much unmolested five years ago. A very rare survivor at an unbelievable low price...
Oh, and Fez. We don't always argue here....but, good point and observation. |
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aeromech Samba Member

Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 17745 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: Is it possible to retrofit a firewall to a 1968? |
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1971 is my favorite model and I’ve owned 3. _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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fez68 Samba Member
Joined: December 12, 2015 Posts: 243 Location: massachusetts
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: Is it possible to retrofit a firewall to a 1968? |
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I currently have a 68 bus . I used to have a 71 camper and a 73 tintop yrs ago. I prefer the look of the early bays. I don't have a firewall in mine. But when I bought it someone had screwed a 71 firewall in there with sheet metal screws. I took it out ( and allot of mouse shit and nesting!)
The 71 is a great yr . Pretty much the same look but you get disk brakes and a firewall.
Sometimes its better to search threads for an answer rather than ask it. Its seems like the same people always answer and then they all get into an argument and your sitting there still without an answer. I just built my first engine , i didnt ask a single question on here about it. I definetly had allot. I just kept searching other threads and weeded through people arguing and made my own decisions. best of luck on the bus hunt! |
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Thoragaverung Samba Member

Joined: September 15, 2018 Posts: 81 Location: Saint Paul
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: Is it possible to retrofit a firewall to a 1968? |
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| consvws wrote: |
Talk to vw about every other change they made then. Buy a 73 & up if you are worried. They are reinforced in the front & rear quite a bit. A 68 is like a tin can still. The firewall would be the least of my concern if I was thinking about safety. Too each his/her own, please show pictures of how you do it. I'm curious to see how you get it done.
Conrad |
That's good intel. I found images of the 73 and up triangulated framing: that would be the better option. Thank you.
I may start looking for 73's and up. The 68 bus I'm looking at needs too much $ just to go down the road. I collected all the likely parts costs, and even counting zero for labor (mine) the end cost of the bus would be way underwater for what it's worth.
I know these buses will never be as safe as contemporary vehicles and that's not the point. I kind of regard them as a slow boxy motorcycle in terms of occupant protection... But if you can protect yourself better than not from, say, a deer hit, that's something anyway. _________________ Happy to help, but my advice comes with no guarantees. Use at own risk. |
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aeromech Samba Member

Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 17745 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:46 am Post subject: Re: Is it possible to retrofit a firewall to a 1968? |
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If you want info on why I don’t think installing disc brakes is a good idea then send me an email or pm _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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consvws  Samba Member

Joined: April 07, 2009 Posts: 1012 Location: Roseburg, OR
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:38 am Post subject: Re: Is it possible to retrofit a firewall to a 1968? |
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Talk to vw about every other change they made then. Buy a 73 & up if you are worried. They are reinforced in the front & rear quite a bit. A 68 is like a tin can still. The firewall would be the least of my concern if I was thinking about safety. Too each his/her own, please show pictures of how you do it. I'm curious to see how you get it done.
Conrad |
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richparker Samba Member

Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 7723 Location: Durango, CO
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:26 am Post subject: Re: Is it possible to retrofit a firewall to a 1968? |
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| Thoragaverung wrote: |
Firewalls are good for sound proofing...
If you think it's an unnecessary precaution, then talk to the VW engineers who later decided it was a smart play.
I'll also be adding the front Y braces to the frame behind the bumper if I buy this bus. Again, if you think it's unnecessary, talk to VW.
Cheers |
The fire wall acts like a drum, you’re gonna need to use sound deadening to quote it down.
VW was forced to put the fire wall there by the DOT for safety. Otherwise, I doubt they would have ever been installed.
The late bays do have the Y braces, but I think there it more to it then just the braces. I believe the whole frame was redesigned. Also, the y braces are only gonna do you good if you have a accident with a vehicle with the same bumper height.
Good luck on your quest. _________________ __________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
’71 Double Cab |
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Thoragaverung Samba Member

Joined: September 15, 2018 Posts: 81 Location: Saint Paul
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:09 am Post subject: Re: Is it possible to retrofit a firewall to a 1968? |
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I saw the bus yesterday. It's remarkably rust-free, especially for Minnesota, but needs a lot. I am toting up the parts costs now.
Why do rubber seal kits costs so darn much? LOL. _________________ Happy to help, but my advice comes with no guarantees. Use at own risk. |
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Thoragaverung Samba Member

Joined: September 15, 2018 Posts: 81 Location: Saint Paul
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 3:58 am Post subject: Re: Is it possible to retrofit a firewall to a 1968? |
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| aeromech wrote: |
To the OP,
Front disc brakes are tough. I recommend you install a brake booster. |
I saw a kit at Socal Imports, are they worth installing?
https://socalautoparts.com/product/no-hassle-wide-...9-bus-t-2/
I assume a brake booster was an option in 68, and would just bolt in up front? In my experince boosters make a car stop easier but don't do anything for stopping distances. maybe I could do both.  _________________ Happy to help, but my advice comes with no guarantees. Use at own risk. |
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Thoragaverung Samba Member

Joined: September 15, 2018 Posts: 81 Location: Saint Paul
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 3:49 am Post subject: Re: Is it possible to retrofit a firewall to a 1968? |
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| consvws wrote: |
I wonder how many split bus owners install firewalls. Are you concerned the gas tank will overheat being close to the engine? Maybe consider some airbags & power steering while your at it.  |
Firewalls are good for sound proofing and segregation of flammables from heat sources. Bulkheads also add strength to the chassis. You can't foresee every contingency and not all contingencies would be covered by a firewall, but that doesn't make it a bad idea.
If you think it's an unnecessary precaution, then talk to the VW engineers who later decided it was a smart play.
I'll also be adding the front Y braces to the frame behind the bumper if I buy this bus. Again, if you think it's unnecessary, talk to VW.
Cheers _________________ Happy to help, but my advice comes with no guarantees. Use at own risk. |
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Angus II Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2016 Posts: 724 Location: Mammoth Lakes Ca. 93546
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Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:28 pm Post subject: Re: Is it possible to retrofit a firewall to a 1968? |
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| babysnakes wrote: |
| Angus II wrote: |
Hello,
Finished?
And, someone didn't paint the tank hold down straps? Alright... |
You mean like this?
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Hello,
Well now, I do like your idea of finished and level of craftsmanship, babysnakes.
It's the details, that counts. Yet, a little out of context for this level of work...
Sorry, someone is butt hurt.
But, you're the one that said "I just finished this...". And, posted the before pictures, not me. I don't have a crystal ball or some tara cards, my friend. I'm no mind reader.
That would be like me posting a picture like this, and saying " I just finished this 68 911T"...
And, expect you to know it looked like this after I "really" finished it...
Now, That's finished and ready for sale, my level of craftsmanship and flip in the day... Oh, and here is a picture of the street view(overflow). Notice, the 71 DC & Kombi in the background. I'm not new to this German air-cooled game. Just, slow on the new valuation of them...
.
Oh, and to the OP, it's your bus. Do as you please. But, I would keep it stock, no firewall. But, I'm old school... it's only original once. |
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aeromech Samba Member

Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 17745 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: Is it possible to retrofit a firewall to a 1968? |
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The owner of the 1968 DC pictured is planning on using the truck as a family car. He has a wife and 3 year old son. The idea of installing a firewall and modern seat belts appeals to him. Going crazy though with air bags and all the other modern crap is not in his game plan _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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consvws  Samba Member

Joined: April 07, 2009 Posts: 1012 Location: Roseburg, OR
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Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: Is it possible to retrofit a firewall to a 1968? |
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I wonder how many split bus owners install firewalls. Are you concerned the gas tank will overheat being close to the engine? Maybe consider some airbags & power steering while your at it.  |
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aeromech Samba Member

Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 17745 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: Is it possible to retrofit a firewall to a 1968? |
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Angus,
First.. kiss my ass. No that was when the bus arrived. If you want finished pics let me know.
To the OP,
Front disc brakes are tough. I recommend you install a brake booster. _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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Thoragaverung Samba Member

Joined: September 15, 2018 Posts: 81 Location: Saint Paul
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Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:21 pm Post subject: Re: Is it possible to retrofit a firewall to a 1968? |
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| aeromech wrote: |
| I'd probably want to install a firewall. Two reasons, safety and noise control. You put some of that sound deadening foil mat on the front side of the firewall and I'm pretty sure you'd see a noticeable difference. Also seems to me that without a firewall there is no barrier between your gas tank with rubber hoses for fill and venting and your engine. Why would people say you should install your fuel filter outside of the engine bay and yet think having no firewall is anywhere near a good idea? |
Yeah, I'd definitely want a firewall. Just checking on how hard it will be.
I suppose one must remove the engine, really, in order to get to it all and work over the fuel lines. Que cera, cera.
If I buy this bus I want it solid, I want it done right, I want front disk brakes and front seat belts with takeup reels. And I want a firewall! LOL. _________________ Happy to help, but my advice comes with no guarantees. Use at own risk. |
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babysnakes Samba Member

Joined: August 19, 2008 Posts: 7168
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Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:18 pm Post subject: Re: Is it possible to retrofit a firewall to a 1968? |
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| Angus II wrote: |
Hello,
Finished?
And, someone didn't paint the tank hold down straps? Alright... |
You mean like this?
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