Dummy Learns Transaxle

[Bugged Again]

Clatter I gotta say thanks for the great thread. I got several pages into reading when my eyes started to faze out and then the brain said give it a rest. I will read this again to finish, but what you’ve discovered that these old cases are mostly shot is most helpful. Now I can’t help but wonder what we can use when we can’t find any to rebuild? Gaaa.

[Clatter]

[nogoodwithusernames]

Steve, whatcha charging these days for a stock-ish box?

The rebuilt HD diff unit I got like two weeks before you offered to rebuild mine pops outta fourth under power and drips gear oil...

Money is all going into remodeling the house but gotta set some cash aside for fun stuff right? (cause rebuilding a fresh rebuild is soooo fun...)

Wish I'd have held off on the rebuild just a bit longer and I'd have already had a Steve's (TM) gearbox.
_________________
71 Squareback, 1.7l T4 w/ crank trigger fuel and spark
(Conversion thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=732508&highlight= or https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=151375&sid=f0542d44a322d290c29d6609fac7f215 )
74 914, 2.0L w/ D-Jet

-Derek

[Clatter]

[VWporscheGT3]

Steve,

Just Gotta say man, the Transmission you built me is just wonderful. solid engagement in the gears, feels tight (good tight) and is just a pleasure to row. to anyone who is having Steve build them a transmission... his effort and attention to detail makes for a awesome unit.

Danke Steve!
_________________
If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line.

[Clatter]

Still plugging away at gearboxes..
Didn't want to clog up Brent's thread with this.
Here's Brent's box FWIW -->
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=784640

Took this other apart and just had to share.
Oh, the misery for any poor guy who builds these for a living.
SO many cores just crap these days!

This was another recent "rebuild".
It wasn't very dirty on the outside.
Had tons of silicone and rattle-can black paint, but no shiny nylocks.
So it probably wasn't from LA..

Pinion nut was lock-tited SO tightly.
Even cutting the nut and heating it..

Wallered out my lovely Tim tool.

Finally just ruined the pinion, bearing, nut, race and cut it deep.

But who cares anyway?

Filed it away in the correct location.

Pushed off some diff bearings just to make myself feel better.
I love my tools.

So,
Yeah.
Big day of work to go get the thing,
plus a couple hunnert bux.
One day to get it apart and washed off enough to handle.
Another day to pull everything clear down and wash it all.

For what?
A double side-cover case,
11-tooth diff,
10-tooth mainshaft,
a few gears and a half-way OK pinion bearing.
Didn't even have new synchros or big mainshaft bearing...
Basically, a bunch of junk.

A fool's errand, gentlemen.
Very few of these cores are worth the trouble.
The ones that look recently rebuilt are turning out to be the worst!
_________________
Bus Motor Build

I have excellent news for the world...
There is no such thing as patina.
It does not exist!

[Teeroy]

Why not bag each of them up in a HD plastic bag with a couple desiccant bags for any moisture.
_________________
Pres. Rivercity VW Club www.rcvwclub.org
Founder Derr Wheat Panzers (DWP)
ARR #3
www.autosportsnorthwest.org

[Clatter]

Thought I'd follow up on this..

Got a box built up for my man Trevor.
It's pretty much the same as the second box i did here,
Including a trip to see Scott.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=770207&highlight=trevors

Was visiting another VW master, my man Lee in NM,
And he was saking about these first boxes i did.
He also asked if they were sitting in my damp shop a block from the ocean..

Don't want them turning into a 'rust box'..!
With all of those gears clean and encased with a tiny vent hole,
It makes sense that they would get dew inside on cold mornings.

While i had plans on pulling out the 'failed rebuild' first one i did.
It's been breaking in and now shifts easily and exactly.
It's also completely quiet.
Like a factory box instead of one of those cheap rebuilds i always got..
Even though the ratios aren't the best and it's just a bunch of parts i had around,
It's really hard to pull a box that works perfectly!

In the meantime,
properly storing these others means they should have some oil in them,
And the plan is to go and turn them every so often to keep things coated in oil.
That means adding nose cones and getting them oil tight.

In my last post i was all bragging about having Jim surface some nose cones for me,
But just like that i used them all up!

Loooking again at the thrust plate mod...
Do you -really- need to surface the nose cone .040 to compensate for the plate?
Seems that even though the cone might be .040 forward in the car,
The hockey stick is going to be in the same place.
I'm running an aftermarket rear cradle that's thicker, and that .040 could already be taken up.
Plus, if you run no gasket, there's part of your .040 as well, right?


Here, we got a thrust plate modified to clear a Bruce plate.
Belt -and- suspenders.

Here's the Ghia box all sealed up, some Swepco 201 in there swirled around,
Put on boards level for when i finally get around to swapping it in.

Second box i did at Scott's got the same treatment.

Can't have them becoming a 'rust box' sitting here waiting their turn.

Just gotta get off my ass and swap one of them into the car.

Yes, I'm a hoarder.

Thanks for following along.
_________________
Bus Motor Build

I have excellent news for the world...
There is no such thing as patina.
It does not exist!

[Clatter]

Because i had a couple of those thrust plates to use up;
The ones that retain the mainshaft bearing.
Usually i like the Bruce plate because it’s so much easier.

My Main Man Jim just got some 3-phase rigged up at his new shop and milled a couple nosecones for me.

Talk about overkill.. 😎

Damn, that machine does a nice job.

Just had to brag a bit here..
Ain’t braggin’ if it’s true, right?
_________________
Bus Motor Build

I have excellent news for the world...
There is no such thing as patina.
It does not exist!

[Bruce]

[Clatter]

[jpaull]

Are you using normal gear marking compound? it looks like really old stuff or something different then normal marking compound, and makes it hard to see whats going on.

Here is one i did on a Chevy ring and pinion recently. My compound is abit "much" because i removed pinion shims, added shims, adjusted carrier shims left to right many times before finding out the stock pinion shim set was indeed the best pattern that the housing could produce.

Regular marking compound example:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/rmg-5500011?sei...awEALw_wcB

[jimmyhoffa]

I did the ole' "tighten the lash because it seemed weird not to" thing on a bus box in a Baja, and when I took the bellhousing off for the next service, I saw some mild scarring on the root of the drive side of the ring gear teeth. Maybe it wasn't the cause but it was a weird coincidence.

I think if you're going to chance pulling the lash in any tighter than you think it was on used gears, you may need to chamfer/soften the edges of the pinion teeth as well as I've heard mentioned before.
_________________
1974 Chenowth 2RL #1244 Street Legal
My other car isn't ridiculous.

[Clatter]

[Clatter]

Man! This Ghia trans is such a peach!


After having so many cores be full of rotten junky parts,
One like this seems impossible!

Had the pinion bearing off for cleaning/inspection and it looked good enough to run some more.
Check out how much tighter the nut came than before;
Maybe part of that is blue locktite for lube?

Since this box was in good shape, it kept the same pinion bearing, case, R/P and shims.
Only thing the diff area got was new Brazil SKF carrier bearings.
Because it seemed like this box was still never rebuilt from new,
It gave me a chance to try my turning torque measuring tools and compare to feel.
Here the factory knurled end parts take the slop out of the diff side gears so backlash and turning torque can be measured.
(No R/P in place here)

It was funny to see the numbers all over the place.
This/that different ways of measuring were tried,
As well as these tools:

In the end, these measurements were all over the place.
Same tool wouldn’t repeat.
Sometimes next to nothing, sometimes off the scale with that old CM/KP turning tool from the Bentley.
The other beam wrenches didn’t match each other or the old one either.

Tried doing some lift-off measurements with the cover,
But it fit really tight, and never would pop off straight.
Measurements would be like .015 on one side and .001 on the opposite.

In the end, it totally makes sense that everyone does it by feel.
When it went together, it felt just right.
And with these parts, why not?
Put it together and feel tells the story.
Do it dry, feel it, add a little oil, do it again, and the feel tells the story. Done.


Rigged up my little home-made backlash tab tool and it showed almost .013.
Because I’m measuring outside the OD of the ring gear,
It’s probably around .011 or .010 measuring correctly at the gear with factory tools.

Yeah, that’s a lot more than the .006 or .008 a hot rod box should have,
But the pattern matches the original wear marks perfectly..

I’m -thinking- it’s probably best to leave it like this so it runs quiet on the highway.
This a freeway box after all, and it’s just for street use.

Think i should tighten that backlash up?
Maybe?

Or is it best to leave like this?
_________________
Bus Motor Build

I have excellent news for the world...
There is no such thing as patina.
It does not exist!

[VWporscheGT3]

[Clatter]

Trying to setup 3-4 hub and gears ⚙️..

First off, i guess we’ll drill some oil holes.
The Weddle hubs, both 3-4 and 1-2 have them,
So why not?

Interesting that some hubs drill easy and others no way.

Ordered a $14 “carbide” drill bit from Amazon.
We’ll see what shows and if it works or not.


WRT the end-float thing, I’m getting some ideas..
Using a stock pair of circlips,
When the hub gets forced towards 4th in use:

The clearance between the hub and 3rd opens up.

Clearance between the hub and 4th closes down.

Weddle sells a circlip to setup smaller close-ratio gears,
As well as 091 snap-rings that are thicker.

Usually, a real builder with a lathe will face the hub in the snap-ring area carefully on both sides to get the clearance perfect on both 3rd and 4th.
Since i have no lathe and have to schlep across town to see a machinist i was thinking of having an 091 snap ring surface-ground for the 4th sideof the hub.
If i have the 091 snap-ring taken down so it’s .004 thicker than the stock one,
When the hub gets shoved against 4th, there will be .010 clearance instead of .006..
The 3rd side snap ring can stay stock because it’s just along for the ride anyways and doesn’t see any real thrust. Right?

At least for a fairly mild street driven application..

So, you guys think this is a good way to setup 3-4?
Not the right full-tight-captive you would use in a drag or off-road race trans,
But it should give 4th the clearance/oil it needs to not gall..
Will the hub get thrust against 3rd on decel and maybe stick there?

Let me know if i’m on the right track,
Or even the right train.. 🤪

_________________
Bus Motor Build

I have excellent news for the world...
There is no such thing as patina.
It does not exist!

[Clatter]

Been nerding out on 3-4 hub setup..

Wanted to post this link to have it here.

3-4 hub is its own kettle of fish.
https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=1254156&hilit=fourth#p1254156
_________________
Bus Motor Build

I have excellent news for the world...
There is no such thing as patina.
It does not exist!

[Clatter]

[67rustavenger]

Funny. Your name comes up in mechanical conversations with Xevin frequently.

I have found that your posts are instructional, informative, and damn funny.

Like you, if I have a failure. I post what happened. Either to learn what I did incorrectly or to educate others on what not to do. To avoid a bad experience.

BTW, Xevin hung his racing gloves Saturday night. He felt he couldn't do any better. Beating up in innocent 1600 SP peashooter racers.

Xevin transferred you trans warrantee offer to me!


JK!
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!
2003 Astrovan? GFYS again, Xevin!