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esde
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 6355
Location: central rust belt
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 Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2025 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: Drilling a 36hp crank and flywheel for 8 dowels |
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| pig-pen wrote: |
| esde wrote: |
| pig-pen wrote: |
| so... just wondering... if a 356 flywheel is 8 dowel and same 109 teeth, and same 180mm clutch, and same 24mm clutch depth... could you not just use one of those?? A 356 flywheel I mean. Will that not just go straight in? |
I have read that you need to use the 356 gland nut also.
AA makes a lightened 356 flywheel that is cut to accept a 200mm later disc and pressure plate, if managing the power is a concern. |
shorter gland nut maybe? cant see any other reason
just interesting the the OP was going to copy the drilling of a 356 flywheel... why not just fit it? |
See page 2 of this for more info
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=799156&start=20
Since posting this question, I have just used an 8 dowel flywheel from DPR to make a template, not too hard to do.
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modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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pig-pen
Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2012
Posts: 587
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2025 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: Drilling a 36hp crank and flywheel for 8 dowels |
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| esde wrote: |
| pig-pen wrote: |
| so... just wondering... if a 356 flywheel is 8 dowel and same 109 teeth, and same 180mm clutch, and same 24mm clutch depth... could you not just use one of those?? A 356 flywheel I mean. Will that not just go straight in? |
I have read that you need to use the 356 gland nut also.
AA makes a lightened 356 flywheel that is cut to accept a 200mm later disc and pressure plate, if managing the power is a concern. |
shorter gland nut maybe? cant see any other reason
just interesting the the OP was going to copy the drilling of a 356 flywheel... why not just fit it?
_________________
1954 L227 Type 113
1964 L31 Type 265 |
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esde
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 6355
Location: central rust belt
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| Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2025 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: Drilling a 36hp crank and flywheel for 8 dowels |
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| pig-pen wrote: |
| so... just wondering... if a 356 flywheel is 8 dowel and same 109 teeth, and same 180mm clutch, and same 24mm clutch depth... could you not just use one of those?? A 356 flywheel I mean. Will that not just go straight in? |
I have read that you need to use the 356 gland nut also.
AA makes a lightened 356 flywheel that is cut to accept a 200mm later disc and pressure plate, if managing the power is a concern.
_________________
modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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pig-pen
Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2012
Posts: 587
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2025 7:21 am Post subject: Re: Drilling a 36hp crank and flywheel for 8 dowels |
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so... just wondering... if a 356 flywheel is 8 dowel and same 109 teeth, and same 180mm clutch, and same 24mm clutch depth... could you not just use one of those?? A 356 flywheel I mean. Will that not just go straight in?
_________________
1954 L227 Type 113
1964 L31 Type 265 |
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RolandD
Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2017
Posts: 279
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wis
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| Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2025 5:55 pm Post subject: Re: drilling a 36hp crank and flywheel for 8 dowels |
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Thank you for the confirmation
Roland |
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dangerous
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2017
Posts: 4
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2025 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: drilling a 36hp crank and flywheel for 8 dowels |
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| This is what I found and matched a VW crank to an aftermarket flywheel. I used a 38PCD (19 radius as you said) and one dowel is off-set 5 degrees. |
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RolandD
Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2017
Posts: 279
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wis
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| Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2024 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: drilling a 36hp crank and flywheel for 8 dowels |
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On a damaged flywheel, I was able to measure and confirm the 19mm radius of the bolt circle. The offset pin measured very close to a 5 degree shift.
Can anyone confirm or discredit these numbers before I make a drill fixture?
Roland |
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RWK
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2009
Posts: 1624
Location: S.W. MI
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| Posted: Sun May 26, 2024 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: drilling a 36hp crank and flywheel for 8 dowels |
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Drill jig I picked up at swap, 6mm holes on a 19mm radius, 36HP  4 each drill bushings, for hole size (5.75mm) and follow up 6mm reamer, and jig for flywheel and crank.
Liners are 10mm ID, switch bushings around for each operation drill and ream, little handles make it easy, unlike production style jigs.
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73 Type 181
63 Type 113
63 Type 261- 428 071
62 Type 241-378 025 178 530 |
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RWK
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2009
Posts: 1624
Location: S.W. MI
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2024 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: drilling a 36hp crank and flywheel for 8 dowels |
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I have the 231b I believe it is for the 36, it has a bolt hole radius of 19mm, 6mm drill bushings, someone got a crank to measure? I don't!
The add says those are 231c and I see it has 8mm drill bushings, they are probably for larger 40 and up which is a 20.5mm hole radius, so measuring would be prudent.
I'll post pics of mine at some point, one of which has PN covered in patina 
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73 Type 181
63 Type 113
63 Type 261- 428 071
62 Type 241-378 025 178 530 |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2015
Posts: 874
Location: Rialto. CA
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RolandD
Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2017
Posts: 279
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wis
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2024 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: drilling a 36hp crank and flywheel for 8 dowels |
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Please do share the geometry details.
Roland |
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esde
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 6355
Location: central rust belt
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2024 5:50 am Post subject: Re: drilling a 36hp crank and flywheel for 8 dowels |
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| RWK wrote: |
| Could you drill the 4-6mm pins to 8mm? PM me, I could possibly build a drill jig, do you know the bolt circle, or radius from center, or pin center to center? |
To jump from 6 to 8mm, there would be .5mm between the dowels and the inside/ outside edges of the crankshaft, probably not enough material. To oversize the existing pins, you could use 1/4" (6.32mm), 7mm, or 9/32 (7.14mm)
I have started to make a jig, based on the pattern that DPR uses. If it works well, I will share the details.
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modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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RWK
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2009
Posts: 1624
Location: S.W. MI
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2024 7:41 am Post subject: Re: drilling a 36hp crank and flywheel for 8 dowels |
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Could you drill the 4-6mm pins to 8mm? PM me, I could possibly build a drill jig, do you know the bolt circle, or radius from center, or pin center to center?
_________________
73 Type 181
63 Type 113
63 Type 261- 428 071
62 Type 241-378 025 178 530 |
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Iowa Mark
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2004
Posts: 1077
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: drilling a 36hp crank and flywheel for 8 dowels |
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| esde wrote: |
| Braukuche wrote: |
| There’s no need to eight dowl it unless you are building an engine capable of running the same high RPMs as a Porsche 356. In that case why wouldn’t you buy a 69.5 stroker crank that’s already eight dowled? |
That's not really accurate.
Drag race starts and hard shift are what usually oval out the dowel holes, but cars that are driven hard are well known to do it also. Especially. cars that are driven with a lot of downshifting/ compression braking. The 4 little 6mm pins are barely adequate for 36hp.
Of course at hight rpm, there is more mass (30lbs of flywheel and clutch assembly!) and that inertia is more likely to kill the pins, but it does happen even on stock street driven cars. |
I have to agree. Way back in 1968 my 1957 stock bug spun the flywheel. I was just your typical teen-age boy driving up and down Grand Ave on a friday night. No, honestly! |
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esde
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 6355
Location: central rust belt
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: drilling a 36hp crank and flywheel for 8 dowels |
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| Braukuche wrote: |
| There’s no need to eight dowl it unless you are building an engine capable of running the same high RPMs as a Porsche 356. In that case why wouldn’t you buy a 69.5 stroker crank that’s already eight dowled? |
That's not really accurate.
Drag race starts and hard shift are what usually oval out the dowel holes, but cars that are driven hard are well known to do it also. Especially. cars that are driven with a lot of downshifting/ compression braking. The 4 little 6mm pins are barely adequate for 36hp.
Of course at hight rpm, there is more mass (30lbs of flywheel and clutch assembly!) and that inertia is more likely to kill the pins, but it does happen even on stock street driven cars.
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modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11206
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 8:59 am Post subject: Re: drilling a 36hp crank and flywheel for 8 dowels |
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There’s no need to eight dowl it unless you are building an engine capable of running the same high RPMs as a Porsche 356. In that case why wouldn’t you buy a 69.5 stroker crank that’s already eight dowled?
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Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now
1989 Westfalia |
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RolandD
Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2017
Posts: 279
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wis
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esde
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 6355
Location: central rust belt
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2024 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: drilling a 36hp crank and flywheel for 8 dowels |
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Amazing.
So, it has a VW number. Did any VW have an 8 dowel crankshaft from the factory? I'm wondering what the factory made the tool for?
Is one of the pins offset? Maybe it was to repair a crankshaft that had damaged holes?
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modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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TomSimon
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2004
Posts: 751
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2024 2:24 am Post subject: Re: drilling a 36hp crank and flywheel for 8 dowels |
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Very nice! Replaceable hardened drill bushings, a piece of professional tooling. And that patina!
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2-time NASA Pro Racing Champion, Bonneville 130 Club and 150 Club Memeber, BRS Pro Gas racer |
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IN2VWS
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2006
Posts: 2550
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2024 12:18 am Post subject: Re: drilling a 36hp crank and flywheel for 8 dowels |
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