Turn signal oddity

[aquifer]

Success! I installed a new switch, and it works! I had decided to buy a new oem switch several months ago because it seemed like “real” ones were getting a little hard to find, and the prices were pretty high. So I came across one and squirreled it away for a rainy day. Apparently that day is today.

Anyway, I’m still not sure what is wrong with the offending switch. It looks fine to me, the springs and sliders were in place when I took it apart. I didn’t hook it back up and test as scrivy suggested, but this morning I continuity tested the wires between the spade ends and the brass bumps on the brown circuit board that slide across the switches. All were fine. Beyond that, I think the sliders just complete the circuit between the middle bump and one of the other bumps depending on which direction you put the signal lever. So I can’t imagine what could have happened to make it suddenly stop working.

I’m going to keep the old switch of course, and try to dig into it to educate myself eventually.

So now everything works. The indicator light in the speedometer and the red light in the flasher knob all work as expected.

Scrivy - my production date was 10-31-66. It seems like I read somewhere that there were a few different switch designs but idk if there was any rhyme or reason to which one went in which car. Maybe mine was the last one left over from a batch or something.

Thanks for all of the suggestions and information! Someday I’ll figure out what is wrong with my old one.
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Parts needed:
Front & rear NOS or used OEM door panels for a '67 in the original Gazelle color (dark tan/light brown).
Also looking for used white headliner pieces, both perforated and non-perforated.

[EVfun]

[scrivyscriv]

[aquifer]

[scrivyscriv]

There are three springs. Two return to center, and the third is under the contact. It’s waaay small. The tiny one is the only spring that can cause this
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Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help.

[aquifer]

[scrivyscriv]

Also, your symptom is exactly what my issue was, and I needlessly chopped up my flasher relay before I found the problem. I took my turn switch apart for paint. When I did, I lost the tiny spring that puts pressure on the sliding contact. The emer flashers worked but the blinkers did not. Didn’t even know the spring had flown out!

The sliding contact has the pulsing 12v signal on it. It has three positions - left blinkers, center off, and right blinkers. The contact needs spring pressure to complete the circuit out to the bulbs via the fixed contacts in the switch.
_________________
Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help.

[scrivyscriv]

[aquifer]

[EVfun]

[aquifer]

[EVfun]

The problem is, I don't think any of us really know what is inside of the 9 pin turn signal flasher. It is likely partly solid state, and that can make for some unusual failure modes, or unexpected sensitivity to grounds or power sources.

Functionally, the 9 pin flasher is a heavy duty flasher and relay with 3 sets of normally open contacts and 1 set of double throw contacts (likely in the form of a 4PDT relay). When the emergency flasher switch is pulled it will turn the relay on and using the now closed normally open contacts send flasher power to both sides of the turn signal switch and to the bulb in the flasher knob. The double throw contact set powers the flasher and when it switches it changes the power supply to the flasher from a terminal 15 fuse (ignition switched hot) to a terminal 30 fuse (always hot). The dash turn signal indicator is handled by the flasher like on other Bugs.
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[aquifer]

Well the new relay didn’t fix it. Still no turn signals. The red light in the emergency flasher knob only flashes when I move the turn signal lever lever up or down.

I think I misread what scrivy said above, and I now agree that it must be backfeeding through the turn signal switch on the steering column. I really thought the feedback was inside the relay. But nope. I’ll dig deeper into the switch itself.

Any other ideas are welcome as well.
_________________
Parts needed:
Front & rear NOS or used OEM door panels for a '67 in the original Gazelle color (dark tan/light brown).
Also looking for used white headliner pieces, both perforated and non-perforated.

[aquifer]

[scrivyscriv]

I looked through the wiring diagram some more and I think it may be on the black/ white and green stripe wire circuit. It carries the pulsing 12v to the turn signal switch, where it’s directed to left side or right side lights circuits. Five bucks or a boojee coffee says the wire terminal 49a on the flasher relay came loose or fell off!

On the flasher relay, terminals VL and VR send the pulsed voltage to BOTH left and right lights circuits at a factory T splice, Only when the hazard knob is pulled. I think the light in the hazard knob is back feeding through the turn signal switch when you move the turn switch.
_________________
Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help.

[Zwitterkafer]

Make sure that the emergency flasher switch is tight in the dash and well grounded. That ground is essential for the emergency flasher to be activated and for the flasher switch bulb to blink. The switch must be tight in the dash and any fresh paint scraped away a bit to allow for a ground connection. IIRC there exists a version of the switch with a dedicated ground wire, in recognition of this grounding problem.

When the '66 - '67 type switch is pulled, "s" on the flasher is connected to ground, to start the flasher. At the same time, the switch connects "49a" on the flasher to the bulb in the flasher switch. If jiggling the switch in various positions influences functionality, the grounding or internal contacts are suspect.

Confirm first that both tell-tale bulbs are good, and that the flasher ground and power source are both faultless. No LED type bulbs in use, right?
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"Criticism comes easier than Craftsmanship"
- Zeuxius, 400 BC

[MrGoodtunes]

@ aquifer, your symtoms are almost exactly what happens with my buggy's blinkers after not being used for several days; except for one thing, when my turn signals are failing, hazard flashers work (including red knob light) regardless of turn signal switch position. The fix for me (which has been doing the trick for years now, but may not work for you 'cuz I'm using a mid70s hazard switch) is to fiddle with hazard switch while turn signal stalk is either up (right turn) or down (left turn). By pulling the hazard switch only part way out and jiggling it, turn signals begin to work and will stay good (until next similar failure after long period without use).

[aquifer]

[OldSchoolVW's]

[EVfun]