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jeff68
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2007
Posts: 306
Location: Sarasota, Florida
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 Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2025 5:13 am Post subject: Re: Empi Super Shrouds |
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I think that Concept 1 built the shrouds to offer different options. Such as a thing (doghouse) shroud with no heater ducts, a thing shroud with no heater ducts where the doghouse fits a type 4 oil cooler, a stock doghouse shroud with heater ducts. I think all of these shrouds have the venturi ring. I have a concept 1 thing doghouse shroud with a type 4 cooler on my 2110 right now.
I also have used a stock thing shroud with the standard doghouse oil cooler as well.
I'm running IDA's on my engine and the side fuel inlet is almost touching the side of the fan shroud both the OEM German shroud and the concept 1 shroud. I'm not a cal-look historian but I think many ran the 36 hp shroud because of this tight fit (among other reasons maybe?). I could see how there can be clearance problems with some engines and the components (manifolds, carbs, different engine widths, linkage type).
In the latest Hot VW's Mag I see an ad that BBT is selling shrouds that look to be made by them as well, so maybe another option.
IMO, if Empi did what they advertise when developing their new fan shrouds it could be a good product. I know the owners of the company are not the same as the previous owners that were known for selling the parts that had many problems, didn't fit, or last. It seems they are making a solid effort with many of their products so the shrouds could be a good product. If I needed a shroud I'd buy one. I hope someone on this forum buys one puts it into service, has good results and posts them here. This hobby really could use good companies making quality products that work. |
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58 Plastic Tub
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2007
Posts: 508
Location: Nowhere, USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2025 8:35 am Post subject: Re: Empi Super Shrouds |
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| 94touring wrote: |
| I don't have a problem buying one and letting the CHT gauge do the talking. |
Me neither, but you'll probably beat me to it. Please continue reporting your findings here or on the other thread.
Thanks!
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Stan Galat
"A single point in isolation is a reference point. Two points is a line. Three points is a trend. Trends don't lie." |
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94touring
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2020
Posts: 539
Location: Tulsa - OK
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2025 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: Empi Super Shrouds |
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| I don't have a problem buying one and letting the CHT gauge do the talking. |
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geeze
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2025
Posts: 30
Location: land before time
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2025 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: Empi Super Shrouds |
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at some point soon someone will get hold of one and post some real pics of the important stuff like vanes and we all can all make a judgement if we want to play or not
until then its all conjecture and all we have to go on is some advertising claims
I want these to be good if Im honest and Im hoping they are |
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79703
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2025 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: Empi Super Shrouds |
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| redhot wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
"Extensive development, CAD modeling, 3D scanning, and exhaustive real-world flow testing have yielded a proprietary EMPI fan shroud that cools more effectively, directs air more efficiently,"
Than what? Their previous shroud or the OEM shroud? |
The statement is a bit ambigious; quoting their page again. There are two sections, the upper refers to OEM while latter with values/numbers refer to OE-style which then can be interpreted... While they do indeed compare to their own non-doghouse then. I would interpret the reference to OEM mostly towards the unbalanced bank but indeed is overall cooling efficiency referenced in same paragraph.
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The EMPI Super Shroud features multiple elements that have been completely redesigned for a cleaner, OE Style look while delivering improved engine performance and longevity when compared to OEM shrouds including
Added Velocity Stack Inlet, mimicking the Porsche 356 OEM shroud, to increase airflow into the shroud and deliver more cooling efficiency.
Enhanced air balance across the engine, OE-style and existing aftermarket shrouds are typically imbalanced, favoring the passenger side (1 & 2 cylinders) versus the driver side (3 & 4 cylinders). This imbalance can lead to inconsistent heating between the sides of the motor. The EMPI Super Shroud corrects the imbalance while still delivering increased airflow across both sides of the engine.
........................
Extensive testing confirms that the EMPI Super Shroud delivers:
7% more total air flow than previous EMPI non-doghouse shrouds (w/either fan)
14% more cooling air CFM (cubic feet per minute) output than OE Style Shroud (w/30mm fan)
37% more cooling air CFM output than OE Style Shroud (w/37mm fan)
42% more engine cooling capacity when using a remote oil cooler and 37mm fan versus OE-style oil cooler in an OE-style shroud |
Damn... missed that.
I stand corrected.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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geeze
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2025
Posts: 30
Location: land before time
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2025 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: Empi Super Shrouds |
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at some point soon someone will get hold of one and post some real pics of the important stuff like vanes and we all can all make a judgement if we want to play or not
until then its all conjecture and all we have to go on is some advertising fluff |
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redhot
Samba Member
Joined: February 05, 2005
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2025 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: Empi Super Shrouds |
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| Glenn wrote: |
"Extensive development, CAD modeling, 3D scanning, and exhaustive real-world flow testing have yielded a proprietary EMPI fan shroud that cools more effectively, directs air more efficiently,"
Than what? Their previous shroud or the OEM shroud? |
The statement is a bit ambigious; quoting their page again. There are two sections, the upper refers to OEM while latter with values/numbers refer to OE-style which then can be interpreted... While they do indeed compare to their own non-doghouse then. I would interpret the reference to OEM mostly towards the unbalanced bank but indeed is overall cooling efficiency referenced in same paragraph.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The EMPI Super Shroud features multiple elements that have been completely redesigned for a cleaner, OE Style look while delivering improved engine performance and longevity when compared to OEM shrouds including
Added Velocity Stack Inlet, mimicking the Porsche 356 OEM shroud, to increase airflow into the shroud and deliver more cooling efficiency.
Enhanced air balance across the engine, OE-style and existing aftermarket shrouds are typically imbalanced, favoring the passenger side (1 & 2 cylinders) versus the driver side (3 & 4 cylinders). This imbalance can lead to inconsistent heating between the sides of the motor. The EMPI Super Shroud corrects the imbalance while still delivering increased airflow across both sides of the engine.
........................
Extensive testing confirms that the EMPI Super Shroud delivers:
7% more total air flow than previous EMPI non-doghouse shrouds (w/either fan)
14% more cooling air CFM (cubic feet per minute) output than OE Style Shroud (w/30mm fan)
37% more cooling air CFM output than OE Style Shroud (w/37mm fan)
42% more engine cooling capacity when using a remote oil cooler and 37mm fan versus OE-style oil cooler in an OE-style shroud |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79703
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2025 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Empi Super Shrouds |
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| chrisflstf wrote: |
If the empi haters did all the testing you guys want, they would be $2000  |
OK, so the choice is to use a known product like the OEM shroud that has been around for 50 years and billions of miles on everything from stock 48hp to 200hp engine and works.
Or
Use a new product with no history and just a promise that "cools more effectively" than some unknown other shroud.
You be the Guinea pig.
Honestly, i'd like to see Jack Sacchette post something, online and somewhere, that he's tested these shrouds and they do live up to the marketing hype. I don't need to see scientific numbers, but he has a solid rep and even though he's associated with EMPI, I would trust what he says.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
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chrisflstf
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 4109
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2025 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: Empi Super Shrouds |
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| If the empi haters did all the testing you guys want, they would be $2000 |
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redhot
Samba Member
Joined: February 05, 2005
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2025 11:27 am Post subject: Re: Empi Super Shrouds |
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| oprn wrote: |
Unlikely to happen for several reasons.
1) testing costs money.
2) results could be underwhelming.
3) leaves them open to lawsuits if the same results are not seen by the customer. |
Agree it is quite naive, but one would also think that if they indeed want to build trust in any regards then they would benefit by such.
They state themselves; https://empius.com/products/empi-super-shroud-early-36-hp-style-black/
While they may not want to spill it all, and may need to use the typical disclaimers to avoid any items per your #3 ("results may vary", "not for road use" and all other typical forumlations one sees...), #1 and #2 are advertised. Not being able to back the statement in any regards means it is the PR department that did the engineering perhaps 
Extensive development, CAD modeling, 3D scanning, and exhaustive real-world flow testing have yielded a proprietary EMPI fan shroud that cools more effectively, directs air more efficiently, and fits better than ever before.
These early style Super Shrouds deliver more air volume for increased cooling capacity. Internal fin shapes and placements were optimized using Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD) software and empirical flow bench testing. 3D scans of multiple engine cases and tins were used to ensure the best fitment possible. Plus, the Super Shroud can accommodate your choice of stock (28-30mm) or thicker (37mm) fans. |
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Rob Combs
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2020
Posts: 590
Location: South Bay LA, California
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2025 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: Empi Super Shrouds |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| geeze wrote: |
| the main reason I've used aftermarket shrouds is for the better packaging of the 36hp shape when running twin carbs and no heating |
IDAs fit with a factory shroud.
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Strangely enough, my tiny DCNFs did not clear the OEM shroud on Berg manifolds. Even hammer clearancing didn’t get me there.
That’s how I ended up with Scat shrouds. With no ill side effects. But I run the type w/out heater box outlets so can’t comment on how the heater type cools. |
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 6207
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2025 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: Empi Super Shrouds |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| The only thing that's hard is getting to the #1 and #3 plugs. I cut 1.5" holes on the fender and can easily access the plugs with a socket that has a built in swivel and a locking extension. I use a piece of hose, on the engine of the plug to get then started when reinstalling. |
Damn Glenn, you are making me like the single port engine even more! 
I don't know, but it seems to me that if I just want to go like stink there are a lot of late model cars I could buy that will do it, and kick most of our Bugs to the loser lane. If I want to go in nostalgic style I'll drive one of these old aircooled wonders -- a utilitarian design good enough to be produced for 65 years!
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 14877
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2025 3:50 pm Post subject: Re: Empi Super Shrouds |
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Unlikely to happen for several reasons.
1) testing costs money.
2) results could be underwhelming.
3) leaves them open to lawsuits if the same results are not seen by the customer.
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old! |
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redhot
Samba Member
Joined: February 05, 2005
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2025 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: Empi Super Shrouds |
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Is not the fair and only resolve to see if EMPI PLUS may provide their compiled or broader test data, to anchor their advertisement?
If they can back their claim with actual data, a good part of the VW population may be more accesible customers. If they cannot show to any data or other comparative information then there is only the "gloss" remaining...
And in the information world, not providing information, is (almost) as not having it in the first place...
So - who can entice EMPI to come forward in terms of sharing? |
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geeze
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2025
Posts: 30
Location: land before time
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2025 3:02 pm Post subject: Re: Empi Super Shrouds |
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| ghias have so much room it feels like a penthouse, guess thats because they are fancy |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79703
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2025 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Empi Super Shrouds |
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The only thing that's hard is getting to the #1 and #3 plugs. I cut 1.5" holes on the fender and can easily access the plugs with a socket that has a built in swivel and a locking extension. I use a piece of hose, on the engine of the plug to get then started when reinstalling.
If you want easy access, then drive a Ghia.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
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geeze
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2025
Posts: 30
Location: land before time
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2025 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: Empi Super Shrouds |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| geeze wrote: |
| the main reason I've used aftermarket shrouds is for the better packaging of the 36hp shape when running twin carbs and no heating |
IDAs fit with a factory shroud.
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oh yeah, i know they do fit, they just then make getting to a whole bunch of stuff a pain
like you I tend to stick with what i know works and Ive kinda settled on german shroud and thermostat for anything with heating but 36hp shroud running open flaps and industrial tins for any summer toy that does without the exchangers
where to run the oil cooler is a whole separate debate thougb, back with liking the doghouse set up after a bad experience going the dedicated external cooler route which means this new empi one is a definite maybe unless they release a doghouse version |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79703
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2025 10:52 am Post subject: Re: Empi Super Shrouds |
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| geeze wrote: |
| the main reason I've used aftermarket shrouds is for the better packaging of the 36hp shape when running twin carbs and no heating |
IDAs fit with a factory shroud.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
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Dusty1
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2004
Posts: 2161
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2025 9:47 am Post subject: Re: Empi Super Shrouds |
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Cheap parts are an education.
Good parts are for people who have had their education.
I got out of VWs for 20 years.
Cue Zappa, "Joe's Garage" "Outside Now"
"I'm outside now. Boy the world sure looks different."
Cheap- ass tin still doesn't fit. Cheap parts still don't work properly.
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geeze
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2025
Posts: 30
Location: land before time
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2025 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Empi Super Shrouds |
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| Alstrup wrote: |
Now, back to the shroud thing. I never really understood the Concept thing. i mean, there are loads of nice usable stock shrouds out there... Unless you can´t find one with a venturi ring. Then it makes some sense.
I was the one who brought up the DTM. Maybe that was wrong. - I also thought they stopped producing the type 1 version. (?) Maybe not. |
this one always confused me too with the Concept ones unless original shrouds are much harder to find in the US than here in Europe
the main reason I've used aftermarket shrouds is for the better packaging of the 36hp shape when running twin carbs and no heating |
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