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halbug
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Joined: March 09, 2006
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Location: Germany
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halbug
Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2006
Posts: 579
Location: Germany
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 Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: Cool Transmission |
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Based on some Porsche racing transmissions I have seen, I like the idea to return the cooled oil through jets directly onto the gears - at least some of the oil...
To make sure I have constant pressure and therefore even supply to all those points, I designed a distributor block with build-in pressure regulator. Anything past 10-14psi (adjustable with washers) will return directly into the case, through the oil filler hole.
And yes, it is a fuel injection rail profile 
Drilling and tapping the case will cost me some nerves for sure  To help guide the tap positively towards the gear, I drilled it with a harded bit. A 3mm rod will act as a guide for tapping into the right direction
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Stealth Ghia Transformation: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7226044&highlight=#7226044
My Berg5: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=730276&start=0
The motor: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=10343324#10343324 |
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Mr. OGPaint
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Joined: September 24, 2010
Posts: 844
Location: Oregon
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bedlamite
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Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 251
Location: WI
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| Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:07 pm Post subject: Re: Cool Transmission |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 15213
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:08 pm Post subject: Re: Cool Transmission |
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This is an interesting idea, most likely totally unnecessary or auto makers would have had a version of it in production years ago. You say Porsche used it in race cars? I like to see unique things and ideas and have enjoyed tinkering on the impractical/unnecessary side of reality myself so... I'm following this with interest!
This is not very different from oiling systems I have seen and worked with on industrial machinery before. I have been called upon to tube in these kind of systems from oil pump to lube points on new installations and to troubleshoot and maintain them afterward. |
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Wreck
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Joined: July 19, 2014
Posts: 1344
Location: Brisbane
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halbug
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Joined: March 09, 2006
Posts: 579
Location: Germany
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madmike
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Joined: July 11, 2005
Posts: 5300
Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:48 am Post subject: Re: Cool Transmission |
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Heat is an 'automatic transmission' worst enemy.
Standard shift manuals don't need a cooler, It don't get that hot in Germany 
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"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works" |
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halbug
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Joined: March 09, 2006
Posts: 579
Location: Germany
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 15213
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:48 am Post subject: Re: Cool Transmission |
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| halbug wrote: |
| But how do you know for sure a type 1 transmission does not get too damn hot under extended load? |
Just put a temperature gauge on it and take it for a drive! That would be the very first step, then when you are done your changes you will have good solid data on how well it worked.
I really don't think you will find your tranny oil in any distress in a Ghia. I don't know about a Ghia but VW said it takes 40 hp to propel a Beetle at a top speed of 72 mph. I don't care if you have 200 hp on tap, you still will only be using 40 hp of that 200 to go 72 mph.
The only way you will be using more than that is if you are pulling a loaded trailer, driving on a never ending up hill or going 140 mph all day. In other words you will have to increase the load.
But it looks like a fun project, have at it, absolutely no harm can come of it and some learning will be done! |
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halbug
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Location: Germany
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 15213
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Cool Transmission |
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The Jetta 5 speed gear boxes have the 5th gear on the end, in a separate section of the case really. When they run low on oil the first thing to show stress is the 5th gear needle bearing cage. If your transaxle is set up the same then positive oiling would not be a bad thing.
Or in the case of the Jetta, a closer eye on the tranny oil level... my bad! I saw the drip and assumed it was engine oil! |
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jbbugs
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Joined: September 16, 2002
Posts: 2191
Location: Behind the wheel
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 15213
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:26 am Post subject: Re: Cool Transmission |
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| Hey! Just had a thought - I was wondering how the oil pump would handle cold heavy tranny oil on start up but why not put a temp switch in the tranny and it would only come on when needed. |
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spencerfvee
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Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 3066
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| Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:18 am Post subject: Re: Cool Transmission |
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| hi I wonder if the pick up hose .at the bottom of your trans case . would be prone to things in the road .hitting it and pushing the hose off . would you make a guard over the hose .? so this would not happen . also this would be great to cool the oil in the trans. for racing only . but go for it .let every one know how well it works on the street . good luck |
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gears
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Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4411
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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| Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:29 am Post subject: Re: Cool Transmission |
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Cooled / filtered oil should be fed primarily to pinion bearing, mainshaft ball bearing, and 4th gear. During Autobahn driving, you can be sure 4th (or 5th) gear is running hot, which over time affects longevity of both the mainshaft ball bearing and the gears needle bearing.
Our early Type 1 Elephant housing had an oil return right over 4th gear & ball bearing:
You can get further ideas (gun-drilled mainshaft, modified pinion bearing etc) from this recent Syncro transaxle build thread:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=725130
Thompson Gun-Drilling has drilled dozens of Porsche and VW mainshafts for us in the past ..
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halbug
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Joined: March 09, 2006
Posts: 579
Location: Germany
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halbug
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Location: Germany
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SBD
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Joined: October 24, 2012
Posts: 3298
Location: SOUTH DAKOTA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Cool Transmission |
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 Very interesting!
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| mark tucker wrote: |
| I wouldent waste $ or thyme on building a small motor. build it big so it dosent have to work hard.remember it's only as fast as your foot alows it to be unless you build a small turd then it just stinks as it squishes up through your toes when you step on it. |
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halbug
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Location: Germany
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Isn't this bearing immersed in oil anyhow?
