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halbug
Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2006
Posts: 569
Location: Germany
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 Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2025 4:42 am Post subject: Oxyboxer (s) for my Ghia project |
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Hi, some of you may have read my diary on building my dream car, a 1965 Karmann Ghia Convertible. I will describe the engine build in this new thread.
The story:
It has always been clear to me, not to drive the car with its 34hp, even though I restored the original 1200cc engine to factory specs and had all the sheet metal powder coated. This is how I drove it arround in Michigan. First plan was to use a newly build, old-school Gene Berg 82x90.5 (2110 ccm), motor instead. This one has sold to a very nice guy in France  meanwhile.
As the car project developed, I wanted something bigger, with less cam and still somewhere in the ballpark of 200HP. I decided for an 86x101.6 (2788ccm) Oxyboxer and started making and collecting parts for it.
I ran into a big issue with the cylinder heads. I bought raw heads from Thorsten Pieper and had them flow bench ported from a tuner in the deep south of Germany. Let us call him RB for now. He did a good job on the porting, however messed up the valve seat install big time. The intake rings where not fully seated, on the first time I received the heads back:
Second time around, almost one year after had I sent the heads back to him, he just pressed the rings deeper into the head and chamfered the rings way into the head material to make up for the now too low installed ring:
This set me back and I did not know what to do first, until Thorsten Pieper offered to repair this mess – Thanks Thorsten!!! He pulled the seats, had the head laser welded and installed new, special made longer and larger valve seats:
This whole odyssey did cost me 1-1/2 years and not just time  . I want to get my car on the street for its 60th birthday this year. To speed up, I put this project aside for now and will make a used 2.6 Oxyboxer work in my car. I will use many of the parts from my original plan.
_________________
Stealth Ghia Transformation: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7226044&highlight=#7226044
My Berg5: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=730276&start=0
The motor: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=10343324#10343324 |
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vince1
Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2003
Posts: 833
Location: Burgundy, France
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Willin
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2019
Posts: 240
Location: Bozeman Mt
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2025 6:47 am Post subject: Re: Oxyboxer (s) for my Ghia project |
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What's a Oxyboxer?
Beautiful Ghia!
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73 bus. Org. 1700 with dual Weber 40 idfs, bus header with Empi qp muffler, CB magnaspark 2 " ready to run kit". |
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mcmscott
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2010
Posts: 4920
Location: sanger ca
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2025 9:50 am Post subject: Re: Oxyboxer (s) for my Ghia project |
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| Willin wrote: |
What's a Oxyboxer?
Beautiful Ghia! |
Water cooled Vanagon engine,aka, waterboxer converted to air cooled
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There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,
68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
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halbug
Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2006
Posts: 569
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2025 11:25 am Post subject: Re: Oxyboxer (s) for my Ghia project |
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Thanks for your interest guys.
Yep, waterboxer from vanagon, water jackets milled of. This makes the strongest Type1 case VW ever made. And the cylinder stud spacing is larger, aka allows for bigger bore cylinders.
Further specs for this 2,6 oxyboxer:
Wbx converted to Air
2576 ccm
82mm stroke Limbach
100mm Pistons: Porsche GT3
Cyinder: Alu Nikasil Type 4 modified
Cam: FK 98
Rockers: Pauter 1:1,4 IN and 1:1,3 EXH
Heads: Competition Eliminator IN 48mm EXH 40mm heads completely ported and reworked by Dirk Scheffer Edelweiss
CR: 12,8 : 1
Valves + Pushrods Titan
I will complete this block with:
Ron Lummus dual street clutch, flywheel lightned and trigger milled
Porsche cooling
Drysump oil system
EFI Throttle bodies: Jenvey heritage 48 IDF
Distributerless ignition
Not sure what ECU to use yet. I have a super old Haltec, never used, but this may be none sense.
Header will be custom made 45/48/55 stepped 4 into 2 into muffler and I will try to fit a Porsche 911 sport muffler under the Ghia apron
I'll post more pictures as I progress
_________________
Stealth Ghia Transformation: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7226044&highlight=#7226044
My Berg5: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=730276&start=0
The motor: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=10343324#10343324 |
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Willin
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2019
Posts: 240
Location: Bozeman Mt
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| Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2025 7:20 am Post subject: Re: Oxyboxer (s) for my Ghia project |
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Are the heads Type 1 or Type 4 ?
Cool project!
_________________
73 bus. Org. 1700 with dual Weber 40 idfs, bus header with Empi qp muffler, CB magnaspark 2 " ready to run kit". |
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halbug
Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2006
Posts: 569
Location: Germany
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TRS63
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Joined: December 17, 2017
Posts: 1127
Location: Stuttgart - Germany
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vamram 
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012
Posts: 7946
Location: NOVA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2025 6:18 am Post subject: Re: Oxyboxer (s) for my Ghia project |
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| mcmscott wrote: |
| Willin wrote: |
What's a Oxyboxer?
Beautiful Ghia! |
Water cooled Vanagon engine,aka, waterboxer converted to air cooled |
This is also waaaay beyond my paygrade but I'm *really* curious to see what a waterboxer longblock converted to air-cooled looks like fully assembled, before tins are in place.
Halbug, I hope you add many pictures to your build!
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"Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition
to put moral chains upon their own appetites. -Edmund Burke
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Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...languishing since 2022.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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flat4olsen
Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2014
Posts: 344
Location: Denmark, Europe
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| Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2025 12:26 pm Post subject: Re: Oxyboxer (s) for my Ghia project |
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| vamram wrote: |
| mcmscott wrote: |
| Willin wrote: |
What's a Oxyboxer?
Beautiful Ghia! |
Water cooled Vanagon engine,aka, waterboxer converted to air cooled |
This is also waaaay beyond my paygrade but I'm *really* curious to see what a waterboxer longblock converted to air-cooled looks like fully assembled, before tins are in place.
Halbug, I hope you add many pictures to your build! |
Sorry for hijacking, but here is a picture of an oxyboxer
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Type 1 1968, Lotosweiss. 2109 oxyboxer engine
Early Bay 1970, Montana Red. Under construction |
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nightbasser
Samba Member
Joined: December 25, 2023
Posts: 41
Location: Kentucky
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2025 9:03 am Post subject: Re: Oxyboxer (s) for my Ghia project |
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| Very cool build! Following! |
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Bad bug
Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2006
Posts: 1159
Location: Jamaica
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2025 9:40 am Post subject: Re: Oxyboxer (s) for my Ghia project |
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| flat4olsen wrote: |
| vamram wrote: |
| mcmscott wrote: |
| Willin wrote: |
What's a Oxyboxer?
Beautiful Ghia! |
Water cooled Vanagon engine,aka, waterboxer converted to air cooled |
This is also waaaay beyond my paygrade but I'm *really* curious to see what a waterboxer longblock converted to air-cooled looks like fully assembled, before tins are in place.
Halbug, I hope you add many pictures to your build! |
Sorry for hijacking, but here is a picture of an oxyboxer
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Wanted to do a 2.6ltr also but the cost for the heads were high so i did my engine kit with the los panchitos. What i like about the oxy is that the block will be the last t1 type block you will ever use because of its strength. The block is 1/2 inch wider so the liners are shorter hence they should be able to stay round ( a lot stiffer ) when torqued correctly you can also safely build from a 1600 all the way up to a 2.9ltr engine with this block. |
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VolksRodT
Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2013
Posts: 35
Location: Minn
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2025 10:22 am Post subject: Re: Oxyboxer (s) for my Ghia project |
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Build-threads on each of these mills????
I've got a stalled Oxy-build a-waiting. 4 full swinging inches... Suitable heads seem to have disappeared from the face of the earth, except for JPM. Just gotta figure out how to afford them...
Marcus... |
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Bad bug
Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2006
Posts: 1159
Location: Jamaica
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2025 2:31 pm Post subject: Re: Oxyboxer (s) for my Ghia project |
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| Yeah JPM was what I wanted but the cost was heavy. If in the future I can come up with the cash it could be a possibility. I already have the king cover from JPM to remind me what I had intended to build. |
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halbug
Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2006
Posts: 569
Location: Germany
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BFB
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 2520
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2025 7:30 am Post subject: Re: Oxyboxer (s) for my Ghia project |
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something to note for those that dont know is WBX came with flanged cranks and the 2.1 has a longer stroke. im sure that was really appealing back before flanged cranks were readily available.
im also pretty sure you can put a WBX crank into a T1 case with some case modifications?
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"how am i supposed to torque the rear wheel nut to 250 ft lbs??? " - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
Most experts aren't. |
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halbug
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Joined: March 09, 2006
Posts: 569
Location: Germany
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Zed999
Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2018
Posts: 1370
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2025 11:54 am Post subject: Re: Oxyboxer (s) for my Ghia project |
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| BFB wrote: |
something to note for those that dont know is WBX came with flanged cranks and the 2.1 has a longer stroke. im sure that was really appealing back before flanged cranks were readily available.
im also pretty sure you can put a WBX crank into a T1 case with some case modifications? |
The flywheel connection and main journals are the same as a type-4. The 2.1 crank is 76mm, the cylinder spacing is like a Type-1, as are the rod journals. Really nice crank. It has thrust plates instead of a thrust bearing. I had a 2020 (76 x 92) wasser crank type-1 engine, it was super smooth.
Definitely appealing to me as a bus owner to be able to use a stock 227mm flywheel and clutch on a type-1 engine.
The main problem is when you decide you'd like to make it a longer stroke - you can't, you have to start from scratch. In my case I scratched my chin and abandoned for a better cooling type-4 build which as you know is the same kind of size before you even start so maybe it's limitation was a plus in the long run. |
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halbug
Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2006
Posts: 569
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2025 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: Oxyboxer (s) for my Ghia project |
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| Zed999 wrote: |
| BFB wrote: |
something to note for those that dont know is WBX came with flanged cranks and the 2.1 has a longer stroke. im sure that was really appealing back before flanged cranks were readily available.
im also pretty sure you can put a WBX crank into a T1 case with some case modifications? |
The flywheel connection and main journals are the same as a type-4. The 2.1 crank is 76mm, the cylinder spacing is like a Type-1, as are the rod journals. Really nice crank. It has thrust plates instead of a thrust bearing. I had a 2020 (76 x 92) wasser crank type-1 engine, it was super smooth.
Definitely appealing to me as a bus owner to be able to use a stock 227mm flywheel and clutch on a type-1 engine.
The main problem is when you decide you'd like to make it a longer stroke - you can't, you have to start from scratch. In my case I scratched my chin and abandoned for a better cooling type-4 build which as you know is the same kind of size before you even start so maybe it's limitation was a plus in the long run. |
What where the showstoppers for larger cranks you ran into? My 2.6 has a 82mm Limbach crank and my 2.8 will receive a 86mm crank, both with type 4 flywheel flange.
_________________
Stealth Ghia Transformation: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7226044&highlight=#7226044
My Berg5: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=730276&start=0
The motor: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=10343324#10343324 |
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Zed999
Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2018
Posts: 1370
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2025 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: Oxyboxer (s) for my Ghia project |
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| halbug wrote: |
| Zed999 wrote: |
| BFB wrote: |
something to note for those that dont know is WBX came with flanged cranks and the 2.1 has a longer stroke. im sure that was really appealing back before flanged cranks were readily available.
im also pretty sure you can put a WBX crank into a T1 case with some case modifications? |
The flywheel connection and main journals are the same as a type-4. The 2.1 crank is 76mm, the cylinder spacing is like a Type-1, as are the rod journals. Really nice crank. It has thrust plates instead of a thrust bearing. I had a 2020 (76 x 92) wasser crank type-1 engine, it was super smooth.
Definitely appealing to me as a bus owner to be able to use a stock 227mm flywheel and clutch on a type-1 engine.
The main problem is when you decide you'd like to make it a longer stroke - you can't, you have to start from scratch. In my case I scratched my chin and abandoned for a better cooling type-4 build which as you know is the same kind of size before you even start so maybe it's limitation was a plus in the long run. |
What where the showstoppers for larger cranks you ran into? My 2.6 has a 82mm Limbach crank and my 2.8 will receive a 86mm crank, both with type 4 flywheel flange. |
What i meant was that once the case is machined for the WBX crank, you can't go back to a very readily available stroker type-1 crank without a new case. To be honest once I'd bought a raised roof case and sold the WBX crank engine I came to my senses over the limitations of type-1 cooling for the load a bus puts on one, sold the case, put 104mm B&P's on an otherwise stock 2L and for such a simple and crude conversion it's very nice for a bus. |
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