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TeeSquare2000
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2024 8:09 am    Post subject: Please help with identification Reply with quote

I hope that I can get help identifying what chassis my Bradley GT uses. I just bought it last week. The title stated the make as 1979 Bradley GT. It was assembled in 1995. I don't think it is a type 1 Beetle.

There are no mounts just behind the engine on the transaxle. I see the place where there should be holes for the mounts but there are no holes.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


These disk brakes seem like original equipment. I want to replace the calipers but don't know what to order.
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The front beam does not look like a type 1. Type 3 maybe?
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The engine has dual carbs.
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There is a weird engine mount that has two pegs supporting it on both sides of the pulley.
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Steering linkage.
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I looked for stamped chassis numbers but could not find any. I did a VIN search on multiple platforms but nothing comes up. If anyone can help be identify the Model and year, I would appreciate that.

The mechanicals are a bit of a mess and needs some love.

And, this is my first post on this forum so forgive any mistakes I make.

Thanks for the help!
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GjMan
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2024 9:13 am    Post subject: Re: Please help with identification Reply with quote

That's a modified type 3 pan with a type 1 engine. Should be a VIN beginning with either 31 or 36 stamped on top of the rear end of the tunnel.

Oh, and welcome aboard. We'll help you figure this out.

As to the front brakes, measure between centers on the caliper mounting bolts. If it's about 55mm, you have 66 to early 71. If about 75mm, you have late 71 to 73 brakes
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2024 10:25 am    Post subject: Re: Please help with identification Reply with quote

Yup, what he said. The rear is also an IRS set, hence the funky engine hanger.
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GjMan
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2024 1:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Please help with identification Reply with quote

Somebody went to a lot of trouble to use a type 3 pan, as, I understand, the Bradley was designed to use a type 1 pan. I see a lot fabrication.

Don't know about the laws in WI, but in most states there needs to be a VIN somewhere on the car that matches the one on the title. Could be the state gave the car a new VIN when it was registered and removed the pan's original VW number? And somehow the new VIN tag was lost over the years? Give us the first 3 numbers of the VIN on the title and we can figure out what you have.

What is certain is that the pan is 69-73, since it has the later rear suspension. Or 68 if it originally came with an automatic transmission.

If your car has the late brake calipers they will be very expensive to replace. Early ones are a easier to find and cheaper. Try rebuilding first. If you don't think you can handle the job, there's a guy here who can rebuild them for you at a very reasonable price.
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TeeSquare2000
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2024 9:07 am    Post subject: Re: Please help with identification Reply with quote

Thanks for all of the info. The VIN starts with DPS95A5VE... There is a sticker on the windshield stating that Ohio BMV has applied the VIN to the car so I assume that the VIN was issued by the state and not the VW manufacturer. It was issued in 1995 so that must be why it starts with DPS95...

Here is a pic of the caliper. Not sure where to measure at. I'll try to free up the piston and maybe try rebuilding the caliper.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Also, on the engine block, it is stamped K070739. If I look this up, I believe that it is a 1500 DP 54HP. This was a type 3 converted to type 1-ish.

I would like to "re-imagine" the motor/transaxle mounting. The current support is not ideal. It allows the motor to pivot because there are only two mounting points that are inline with each other. I suppose I could just drill out the transaxle and put in the rubber mounts. I would need to weld in some connecting brackets for the mounts.
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GjMan
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2024 12:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Please help with identification Reply with quote

You need to measure between the bolts that hold the caliper to the steering knuckle, not the cap screws that hold the two halves of the caliper together. From the pic it looks like you have the early (cheaper) caliper.

Hard to tell from the pics just how solid that rear mount is. Some off road shops sell frame horns that you weld to the type 3 torsion tube. Then you can mount the engine like in a Beetle. You can use the type 3 trans by drilling out the holes for the Beetle style mount.


Last edited by GjMan on Mon Sep 09, 2024 1:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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GjMan
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2024 1:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Please help with identification Reply with quote

Berrien Buggy used to sell those weld-on frame horns, but I don't see them on their website now. Cheapest option would probably be to beef up the existing rear mount, since it carries a lot of weight.

Late type 3s used only two mounting points, front of trans and rear of engine, so what you have is similar to what VW used. But maybe not as strong.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2024 1:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Please help with identification Reply with quote

TeeSquare2000 wrote:


Here is a pic of the caliper. Not sure where to measure at. I'll try to free up the piston and maybe try rebuilding the caliper.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



You would want to measure the distance between the bolts on the backside, where the caliper mounts to the spindle.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2024 3:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Please help with identification Reply with quote

That is a funky looking rear hanger. Is that bracket on the pipe attached to the oil pump? You do need those frame horns or an equivalent.
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I think he meant "rare", as in "not well-done"
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2024 3:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Please help with identification Reply with quote

Acme car company, Pennsylvania. Tubular Frame Horn Kit. C058-BB502 $228.93
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I think he meant "rare", as in "not well-done"
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TeeSquare2000
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2024 10:21 am    Post subject: Re: Please help with identification Reply with quote

I appreciate all of the knowledge you guys have provided. Looks like it is 55mm between the mounting bolts. So, 1970 Fastback/Squareback/Notchback. Are the chassis/brakes and other parts common between the three? Initially, it looks like they are.

JBUGS has this caliper. Looks like it will work.
https://www.jbugs.com/product/98-1150-B.html?rrec=true

Thanks for the info on the horns. That would be better than the janky hanger on it now. I am just about ready to store it for the winter and plan to remove the engine to refresh in the spring. That would be a good time to install better mounts.

I think you got me going. Thanks!
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TeeSquare2000
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2024 10:25 am    Post subject: Re: Please help with identification Reply with quote

Here is a full pic just in case anyone is interested. I had one many years ago but had to sell it because I was deployed overseas. Always wanted another and finally got one.


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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2024 12:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Please help with identification Reply with quote

TeeSquare2000 wrote:
I appreciate all of the knowledge you guys have provided. Looks like it is 55mm between the mounting bolts. So, 1970 Fastback/Squareback/Notchback. Are the chassis/brakes and other parts common between the three? Initially, it looks like they are.

JBUGS has this caliper. Looks like it will work.
https://www.jbugs.com/product/98-1150-B.html?rrec=true

Thanks for the info on the horns. That would be better than the janky hanger on it now. I am just about ready to store it for the winter and plan to remove the engine to refresh in the spring. That would be a good time to install better mounts.

I think you got me going. Thanks!


Actually what you're looking for is the distance between the 2 bolts that hold the caliper to the spindle. A reference measurement is 2 inches. If that's what you have, then you could always go to type 1 Ghia calipers. You could probably get away with them, even though they have a smaller piston in them versus a type 3 caliper.
That's the quick way to tell if you have early 66 thru early 71 calipers, versus late 71 thru 73 calipers (same as a type 4 or Porsche 914).
You need to know which ones you have, so you can get new pads sometime down the road as they're different (pin widths and thickness).
Hopefully you've still got type 3 rear drums (will have 2 - 6mm allen head screws to hold it on. Those brake shoes are the largest ever used on an air cooled VW besides a type 4 ( shared with a 411-412). The type 3 used the same rear brakes on all body styles from 66 thru 73. I hope this helps.

Another option while you have the engine out might be to swap to a universal case, or a low mileage bus case as that would give you a solid mounting for the rear engine hanger bar. I'm running a new (well was new back in 2006) all aluminum universal case engine in my 65 Notch, that I converted to IRS rear, and use an engine hanger bar to support the engine in it.

That's a damn good looking car you have. Cool
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Mike Fisher
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2024 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Please help with identification Reply with quote

Jim Adney in WI is our go to for parts & component rebuilds.
Are the stock 2 bolt hangers rubber mounted on top?
I would probably run your solid steel custom hanger bar, but it's supposed to have rubber flex on top.
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TeeSquare2000
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2024 12:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Please help with identification Reply with quote

@Mike Fisher

All of the motor/trans mounts are metal-to-metal except for the cone mount on the transaxle. If you are stating that this is crap...then I agree!!! It is not the way I would have planned it out but it does kind of work.

Here is the wide view:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The Mounting bar is metal to metal:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The mount attaches to the motor in the center with one bolt and there are two posts that support the motor metal-to-metal.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This puts the only two supporting pivot points for the motor and transaxle in line with each other. Good thing the motor does not have a lot of power or it would just spin right around (just kidding but something would get seriously bent with any sort of torque).

So, typically on a type 1, the transaxle is mounted at the cone and then two mounts just in front of the motor with rubberized mounts. The motor does not actually have any mounts other than being mounted to the transaxle. I believe this to be correct. I think I need to rig up some structure that uses three flexible mounting points.

I'm just going to run it this way for the remainder of the season and put it into storage for the winter. In the spring, I will remove the motor to give it a refresh. While it is out, I will reconfigure the transaxle mounts to a more solid (logical) 3-point type. Someone recommended the weldable horns like a type 1 uses. Thanks for that as well.

Either way, it is good to have a crap-tastic car to wrench on. I was getting tired of my newer, reliable vehicles.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2024 1:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Please help with identification Reply with quote

TeeSquare2000 wrote:
@Mike Fisher

All of the motor/trans mounts are metal-to-metal except for the cone mount on the transaxle. If you are stating that this is crap...then I agree!!! It is not the way I would have planned it out but it does kind of work.

The Mounting bar is metal to metal:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The mount attaches to the motor in the center with one bolt and there are two posts that support the motor metal-to-metal.


That engine hanger IS rubber mounted, as it uses type 3 IRS engine hanger bar mounts. I'm not too crazy of the way the engine is mounted to the bar at the oil pump cover though. Just thought you should know that the engine does have some rubber mounting, and probably less engine vibration into the car.
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GjMan
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2024 6:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Please help with identification Reply with quote

Bob, not sure that mount is rubber. Looks kinda like metal. As in welded up and ground down. Or maybe it's just the lighting.

Tee, it looks like you have an earlier case with 6mm oil pump studs and w/o the three threaded holes for the stock mustache bar. Hence the frankly insane Rube Goldberg thing you have now.

Simplest fix would be the weld on frame horns. Anything else would require a different case and lots of fabrication.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2024 7:44 am    Post subject: Re: Please help with identification Reply with quote

it is probably covered with something hard but the top round part is rubber. here is the complete mount (borrowing from somebody else). Unless it's been modified, it at least started out as a rubber mount.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


check this thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7409038
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2024 9:48 am    Post subject: Re: Please help with identification Reply with quote

Not sure if this part was answered - that's a squareback rear subframe, it has extra reinforcement not needed on the notch / fastback. These had stronger torsions.
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TeeSquare2000
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2024 12:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Please help with identification Reply with quote

Alright. I think you guys helped me identify the chassis.

It does have rubber mounts at the top of the hanger bar. It looked like glob welding but is actually rubber.

I believe that I'm going to roll with a 1970 VW Type 3 Squareback with 1500 CC dual port, twin carbs.

Thank all of you for the help. I really do appreciate it. I see that there is some very valuable knowledge here!

I now know what to call the pit in the ground that I throw all of my money into...
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