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DesertSasquatchXploration
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2021
Posts: 1058
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 Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 8:14 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| I only had one finger smear of metal smug on the mag drain plug after 49'800 miles of off road and street driving. I would say the Valvoline did a damn good job. If your trans doesn't shift right its wore out, rebuilt wrong, bad shift bushing/coupler, not adjusted/shimmed right on the tunnel or adjust your clutch cable. |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52706
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 11:41 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| DesertSasquatchXploration wrote: |
| I only had one finger smear of metal smug on the mag drain plug after 49'800 miles of off road and street driving. I would say the Valvoline did a damn good job. If your trans doesn't shift right its wore out, rebuilt wrong, bad shift bushing/coupler, not adjusted/shimmed right on the tunnel or adjust your clutch cable. |
I had a fresh rebuild that shifted just fine with a fill of GL-4 and after a break in period I did a drain and refill using the oil Gears is recommending, the shifting instantly went to crap so it got drained after only a few dozen miles, but wouldn't shift well again when refilled with GL-4, a route I had sadly been down before. I tried running Swepco 201, a 5W40 oil, then a Valvoline synthetic ATF, and finally a tractor hydraulic oil to get an acceptable shift. Its a bit noisier with the hydraulic oil in the box, but at least its not a PITA going through the gears. I forced in an extra quart of oil when I went to the hydraulic oil and suspect I will get a decent enough life out of the box that way. |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 33430
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Tue May 14, 2024 7:02 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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I just changed the gear oil in my 1971 VW, my 1988 Mazda truck, my 1998 Frontier, and my 2004 Frontier (all 4-cylinder, manual transmissions). I used Ultra1Plus GL-4 gear oil purchased through Amazon. Previously in my Mazda truck I used Sta-Lube GL-4 purchased at NAPA, but the Ultra1Plus is less expensive.
I also did the rear differential gear oil on those 3 trucks.
When I installed my rebuilt MoFoCo transmission into my 1970 VW back in 2018, I added the gear oil, but did not record which brand.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52706
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| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| Cusser wrote: |
| I used Ultra1Plus GL-4 gear oil purchased through Amazon. Previously in my Mazda truck I used Sta-Lube GL-4 purchased at NAPA, but the Ultra1Plus is less expensive. |
I would like to see how both the Sta-lube and the Ultra1plus did in standard wear test. |
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'64cal lookdub
1200 Deluxe
Joined: May 29, 2004
Posts: 1725
Location: TX
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| Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2024 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| I recently filled one of my cars with cheapo $20 Supertech 80w90 GL5. I didn’t notice a shifting difference from the Sta Lube GL4. $85 a gallon for Sta Lube now is ridiculous. |
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scottyrocks
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2016
Posts: 2990
Location: Thornton, CO
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2024 6:39 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| '64cal lookdub wrote: |
| I recently filled one of my cars with cheapo $20 Supertech 80w90 GL5. I didn’t notice a shifting difference from the Sta Lube GL4. $85 a gallon for Sta Lube now is ridiculous. |
The controversy seems to be the effects over time using the 'wrong' lube.
_________________
“If you care for a thing long enough, it takes on a life of its own, doesn't it? Mending old things, preserving them, looking after them – on some level there's no rational grounds for it.”
– D. Tartt, 'The Goldfinch' |
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'64cal lookdub
1200 Deluxe
Joined: May 29, 2004
Posts: 1725
Location: TX
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2024 7:32 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| scottyrocks wrote: |
| '64cal lookdub wrote: |
| I recently filled one of my cars with cheapo $20 Supertech 80w90 GL5. I didn’t notice a shifting difference from the Sta Lube GL4. $85 a gallon for Sta Lube now is ridiculous. |
The controversy seems to be the effects over time using the 'wrong' lube. |
Yea but a few have claimed their cars “instantly” shifted bad/worse with GL5. |
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 80370
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2024 7:48 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| '64cal lookdub wrote: |
| scottyrocks wrote: |
| '64cal lookdub wrote: |
| I recently filled one of my cars with cheapo $20 Supertech 80w90 GL5. I didn’t notice a shifting difference from the Sta Lube GL4. $85 a gallon for Sta Lube now is ridiculous. |
The controversy seems to be the effects over time using the 'wrong' lube. |
Yea but a few have claimed their cars “instantly” shifted bad/worse with GL5. |
Please list their names or quote their posts.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 15199
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2024 8:07 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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After finding out that Ford used ATF in the Escort manual gear box I swapped the gear lube out in my Rabbit for ATF. I did it in the winter and the result was instantaneous. It shifted just like summer! The second thing was that the engine no longer had a tendency to stall on cold start up when letting the clutch out for the first time in the morning.
Initially I was going to change back to regular gear oil for summer but I never did. I beat on that transaxle for the next 6 years with 15+ psi of boost and as far as I know there was no issues. The transaxle has not been out yet for any reason.
I am not sure if ATF would work with our Hypoid final drive gears in air cooled VWs. I have not tried it.
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old! |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 80370
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2024 8:18 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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My 84 Accord used ATF in the manual gearbox.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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'64cal lookdub
1200 Deluxe
Joined: May 29, 2004
Posts: 1725
Location: TX
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2024 9:38 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| '64cal lookdub wrote: |
| scottyrocks wrote: |
| '64cal lookdub wrote: |
| I recently filled one of my cars with cheapo $20 Supertech 80w90 GL5. I didn’t notice a shifting difference from the Sta Lube GL4. $85 a gallon for Sta Lube now is ridiculous. |
The controversy seems to be the effects over time using the 'wrong' lube. |
Yea but a few have claimed their cars “instantly” shifted bad/worse with GL5. |
Please list their names or quote their posts. |
Waste of time, my point was I put GL5 in after draining GL4 and it shifted exactly the same. |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 80370
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2024 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| '64cal lookdub wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
| '64cal lookdub wrote: |
| scottyrocks wrote: |
| '64cal lookdub wrote: |
| I recently filled one of my cars with cheapo $20 Supertech 80w90 GL5. I didn’t notice a shifting difference from the Sta Lube GL4. $85 a gallon for Sta Lube now is ridiculous. |
The controversy seems to be the effects over time using the 'wrong' lube. |
Yea but a few have claimed their cars “instantly” shifted bad/worse with GL5. |
Please list their names or quote their posts. |
Waste of time, my point was I put GL5 in after draining GL4 and it shifted exactly the same. |
Great... I found that out 15 years ago. Welcome to the club.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17658
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2024 3:37 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| '64cal lookdub wrote: |
Yea but a few have claimed their cars “instantly” shifted bad/worse with GL5. |
Only one guy made that claim.
_________________
| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17658
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2024 3:39 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| oprn wrote: |
| After finding out that Ford used ATF in the Escort manual gear box I swapped the gear lube out in my Rabbit for ATF. I did it in the winter and the result was instantaneous. It shifted just like summer! |
You can say the same thing when you switch from 80W-90 to 75W-90. One of my transmissions has 70W-85 in it.
_________________
| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 33430
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2024 6:59 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| My 84 Accord used ATF in the manual gearbox. |
My 1975 Chevy Luv used 30W engine oil in its manual transmission.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 80370
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2024 7:46 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| Bruce wrote: |
| '64cal lookdub wrote: |
Yea but a few have claimed their cars “instantly” shifted bad/worse with GL5. |
Only one guy made that claim. |
Let's stone him.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52706
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| Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2024 9:02 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| Bruce wrote: |
| '64cal lookdub wrote: |
Yea but a few have claimed their cars “instantly” shifted bad/worse with GL5. |
Only one guy made that claim. |
Let's stone him. |
I have made that claim as have others, way more than one. What I am still waiting on is for Bruce to show me a gear set that was harmed by a GL-4 that is recommended for use in a transaxle with low offset hypoid gears. |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 80370
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2024 9:22 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
| Bruce wrote: |
| '64cal lookdub wrote: |
Yea but a few have claimed their cars “instantly” shifted bad/worse with GL5. |
Only one guy made that claim. |
Let's stone him. |
I have made that claim as have others, way more than one. What I am still waiting on is for Bruce to show me a gear set that was harmed by a GL-4 that is recommended for use in a transaxle with low offset hypoid gears. |
Generally when a product is superseded the old product doesn't instantly become obsolete.
For example, most spark plug manufacturers have switched to resistor spark plugs. Using non-resistor plugs will not harm the engine.
Use whatever you like... doesn't matter to me.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52706
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| Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2024 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
| Bruce wrote: |
| '64cal lookdub wrote: |
Yea but a few have claimed their cars “instantly” shifted bad/worse with GL5. |
Only one guy made that claim. |
Let's stone him. |
I have made that claim as have others, way more than one. What I am still waiting on is for Bruce to show me a gear set that was harmed by a GL-4 that is recommended for use in a transaxle with low offset hypoid gears. |
Generally when a product is superseded the old product doesn't instantly become obsolete.
For example, most spark plug manufacturers have switched to resistor spark plugs. Using non-resistor plugs will not harm the engine.
Use whatever you like... doesn't matter to me. |
VW recognized that a GL-5 oil, like what they used in the final drives of the automatics could cause problems with the synchros in the manual gear boxes and thus specced GL-4. An oil that carries a GL4 & Gl-5 oil is a GL-5 oil for all intents and purposes and today may well carry a MT-1 rating indicating they are designed for non sychronized gear boxes and should not be used in a sychronized box.
As I have posted before, today's GL-4 oils give similar 4 ball wear test results to what comparably priced GL-5 oils do, so there is little or nothing to be gained by running a GL-5 oil. |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 15199
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2024 3:54 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| Bruce wrote: |
| oprn wrote: |
| After finding out that Ford used ATF in the Escort manual gear box I swapped the gear lube out in my Rabbit for ATF. I did it in the winter and the result was instantaneous. It shifted just like summer! |
You can say the same thing when you switch from 80W-90 to 75W-90. One of my transmissions has 70W-85 in it. |
No I don't think that is entirely true. There may be a small noticeable difference but in my case the change was huge. ATF is a completely different animal from 75w90! Living on the coast as you do perhaps you have never felt how stiff transmission oil can get in the winter.
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old! |
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