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Message |
zerotofifty
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003
Posts: 4250
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 Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2025 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: Pickup tube stud |
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| JBradford84 wrote: |
| zerotofifty wrote: |
| JBradford84 wrote: |
I was wondering if that’s possible. Humm
I thought about doing all the studs that way to be honest because I have a few leaking that I think need to be drilled out and step down studs installed. |
If the oil sump should not leak if your sump plate is..
1. flat, no dimples or bumps around the stud holes the plate can be hammered and or filed to correct this
2. paper gaskets in good condition.
3. acorn nuts used i.e. cap nuts
4. torque is correct
5 soft copper washers used above the nuts. beware some counterfeit washers are steel with copper plating, use magnet to weed out the steel ones. you want copper, AND you want the copper to be soft. sometimes the copper is hard ( work hardened.) the copper can be annealed to be soft by heating to red hot on a stove top or with a flame, then allowed to slowly air cooled washer that are soft will seal well, they must be in good condition, eventually be replace if distorted.
oil will get past the stud threads, but is above items are good, it oil wont make it out and drip |
1. Brand new billet sump plate and I’ve confirmed it’s flat. But it leaked on my original sump plate too.
2. I’ve tried paper gaskets and wolfberg silicone. Both leak.
3. Is using brand new acorn nuts.
4. Torque is “hand tight” with a thumb ratchet. I know one stud is stripped but it’s not the one in question in my original post and I have a step stud to fix it.
5. I’ve discovered this about the crush washers and luckily my local vw shop seems to sell good ones. |
You need the soft copper gaskets for each acorn nut, I dont see that on your list. I assume the crush washer is for the central drain plug, or are you referring to the acorn nut copper washers as a crush washer?
if your sump plate is flat, place it on the case with no gaskets, no strainer, then tighten it down with the acorn nuts, Use your feeler gage to detect warpage between the sump plate and case.
It is very rare to have a warped case.
the solution maybe a very soft thick gasket for the sump. I have not experienced such an anomaly.
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richparker
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011
Posts: 7772
Location: Durango, CO
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2025 11:13 pm Post subject: Re: Pickup tube stud |
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| Glenn wrote: |
I only use bolt when adding a deep sump. |
Are you using all blots to hold the sump to the case, or just a bolt for the pick up tube? If all bolts, are you bolting up with the heads in the sump or bolting down with nuts in the sump? Are lock washers involved?
I’m gonna be using a sump in a build. The case has all its studs, all tight and I was gonna use the with nuts and lock washers. Should i rethink this approach?
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 80492
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2025 5:13 am Post subject: Re: Pickup tube stud |
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All bolt and from the inside out.
The only time the sump is coming off is when the engine is coming apart.
I smear Right Stuff on a single paper gasket and at first only tighten it till the nut stops. Then 8 hours later I remove the nuts, one at a time, and reinstall with blue Loctite and torque to 8ft-lb.
Never a leak.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
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JBradford84
Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2025
Posts: 64
Location: Tulsa, OK
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2025 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Pickup tube stud |
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|
| zerotofifty wrote: |
| JBradford84 wrote: |
| zerotofifty wrote: |
| JBradford84 wrote: |
I was wondering if that’s possible. Humm
I thought about doing all the studs that way to be honest because I have a few leaking that I think need to be drilled out and step down studs installed. |
If the oil sump should not leak if your sump plate is..
1. flat, no dimples or bumps around the stud holes the plate can be hammered and or filed to correct this
2. paper gaskets in good condition.
3. acorn nuts used i.e. cap nuts
4. torque is correct
5 soft copper washers used above the nuts. beware some counterfeit washers are steel with copper plating, use magnet to weed out the steel ones. you want copper, AND you want the copper to be soft. sometimes the copper is hard ( work hardened.) the copper can be annealed to be soft by heating to red hot on a stove top or with a flame, then allowed to slowly air cooled washer that are soft will seal well, they must be in good condition, eventually be replace if distorted.
oil will get past the stud threads, but is above items are good, it oil wont make it out and drip |
1. Brand new billet sump plate and I’ve confirmed it’s flat. But it leaked on my original sump plate too.
2. I’ve tried paper gaskets and wolfberg silicone. Both leak.
3. Is using brand new acorn nuts.
4. Torque is “hand tight” with a thumb ratchet. I know one stud is stripped but it’s not the one in question in my original post and I have a step stud to fix it.
5. I’ve discovered this about the crush washers and luckily my local vw shop seems to sell good ones. |
You need the soft copper gaskets for each acorn nut, I dont see that on your list. I assume the crush washer is for the central drain plug, or are you referring to the acorn nut copper washers as a crush washer?
if your sump plate is flat, place it on the case with no gaskets, no strainer, then tighten it down with the acorn nuts, Use your feeler gage to detect warpage between the sump plate and case.
It is very rare to have a warped case.
the solution maybe a very soft thick gasket for the sump. I have not experienced such an anomaly. |
You are correct. I consider the washers are the acorn nuts crush washers also. I’ll give the feeler gauge tip a try.
I have not received an answer to my original question. Can you double nut the stud that goes thru the pump arm to keep that stud from be able to spin? |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 80492
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2025 9:22 am Post subject: Re: Pickup tube stud |
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Is the case stripped, is that why it's spinning?
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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richparker
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011
Posts: 7772
Location: Durango, CO
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2025 9:50 am Post subject: Re: Pickup tube stud |
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| Glenn wrote: |
All bolt and from the inside out.
The only time the sump is coming off is when the engine is coming apart.
I smear Right Stuff on a single paper gasket and at first only tighten it till the nut stops. Then 8 hours later I remove the nuts, one at a time, and reinstall with blue Loctite and torque to 8ft-lb.
Never a leak. |
Thanks!
_________________
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’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
’71 Double Cab |
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JBradford84
Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2025
Posts: 64
Location: Tulsa, OK
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2025 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: Pickup tube stud |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| Is the case stripped, is that why it's spinning? |
It seems to be threaded fine but the captured nut in the pump arm isn’t keeping it from threading in like it keeps it from threading out. |
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67rustavenger
Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 11574
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2025 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: Pickup tube stud |
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Bend a cheap open end wrench of the correct fastener/nut size and slip it past the strainer to tighten the nut down.
Cusser has a pic in his gallery that depicts what I'm describing.
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I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!
2003 Astrovan? GFYS again, Xevin! 
Don't let your bad ideas remain, ideas! |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 33485
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2025 10:54 am Post subject: Re: Pickup tube stud |
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| 67rustavenger wrote: |
Bend a cheap open end wrench of the correct fastener/nut size and slip it past the strainer to tighten the nut down.
Cusser has a pic in his gallery that depicts what I'm describing. |
It appears the guy welded this, wasn't me.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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viiking
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2013
Posts: 3457
Location: Sydney Australia
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| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2025 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: Pickup tube stud |
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| Glenn wrote: |
I smear Right Stuff on a single paper gasket and at first only tighten it till the nut stops. Then 8 hours later I remove the nuts, one at a time, and reinstall with blue Loctite and torque to 8ft-lb.
Never a leak. |
Not to start an argument but Bentley only suggests 5 ft-lb. Do you do 8 for a reason?
I've found that very few people know what 5ft-lb is and is one of the reasons that you have leaks either from over-tightening the bolts or studs causing them to strip or distorting the plate.
Also I have invested in an inch-lb torque wrench and therefore tighten to 60 inch-lbs. Using a "normal" say 0-100 ft-lb torque wrench you use on modern engines or the old Chevvy at the low end of the scale IMO just is not accurate.
_________________
1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3 |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 80492
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2025 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: Pickup tube stud |
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| viiking wrote: |
| Not to start an argument but Bentley only suggests 5 ft-lb. Do you do 8 for a reason? |
Because i'm bolting a deep sump on with a thick flange than will not deform like the thin strainer plate. The M6 bolts will take it if you get hardened bolts. You're only tightening them once, not off and on at every oil change.
Also when you remove the engine and set it down, they're usually sitting on the sump and you don't want the sump to loosen.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
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viiking
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2013
Posts: 3457
Location: Sydney Australia
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| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2025 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: Pickup tube stud |
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Ok. Thanks.
_________________
1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3 |
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zerotofifty
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003
Posts: 4250
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2025 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: Pickup tube stud |
|
|
| JBradford84 wrote: |
| zerotofifty wrote: |
| JBradford84 wrote: |
| zerotofifty wrote: |
| JBradford84 wrote: |
I was wondering if that’s possible. Humm
I thought about doing all the studs that way to be honest because I have a few leaking that I think need to be drilled out and step down studs installed. |
If the oil sump should not leak if your sump plate is..
1. flat, no dimples or bumps around the stud holes the plate can be hammered and or filed to correct this
2. paper gaskets in good condition.
3. acorn nuts used i.e. cap nuts
4. torque is correct
5 soft copper washers used above the nuts. beware some counterfeit washers are steel with copper plating, use magnet to weed out the steel ones. you want copper, AND you want the copper to be soft. sometimes the copper is hard ( work hardened.) the copper can be annealed to be soft by heating to red hot on a stove top or with a flame, then allowed to slowly air cooled washer that are soft will seal well, they must be in good condition, eventually be replace if distorted.
oil will get past the stud threads, but is above items are good, it oil wont make it out and drip |
1. Brand new billet sump plate and I’ve confirmed it’s flat. But it leaked on my original sump plate too.
2. I’ve tried paper gaskets and wolfberg silicone. Both leak.
3. Is using brand new acorn nuts.
4. Torque is “hand tight” with a thumb ratchet. I know one stud is stripped but it’s not the one in question in my original post and I have a step stud to fix it.
5. I’ve discovered this about the crush washers and luckily my local vw shop seems to sell good ones. |
You need the soft copper gaskets for each acorn nut, I dont see that on your list. I assume the crush washer is for the central drain plug, or are you referring to the acorn nut copper washers as a crush washer?
if your sump plate is flat, place it on the case with no gaskets, no strainer, then tighten it down with the acorn nuts, Use your feeler gage to detect warpage between the sump plate and case.
It is very rare to have a warped case.
the solution maybe a very soft thick gasket for the sump. I have not experienced such an anomaly. |
You are correct. I consider the washers are the acorn nuts crush washers also. I’ll give the feeler gauge tip a try.
I have not received an answer to my original question. Can you double nut the stud that goes thru the pump arm to keep that stud from be able to spin? |
Yes, you will need to get a wrench on the internal nut, then double nut the external part of the stud, and then you should be able to secure the internal nut nice and tight, but only if so the threads on the case are good.
So YES!
Good luck!
PS a thin short armed wrench is usable for this too. I have some that are about3 or 4 inch length, low profile. A curved handle type is very nice for this, perhaps like these?
https://www.homedepot.com/pep/KING-5-Piece-Half-Mo...GvZKUEWI3y
You may need to cut the handle short on these curved wrench but maybe not. You may need to do a bit of grinding down of the box end to make it thinner an increase clearance
_________________
Sorry About That Chief.
Give Peace a Chance.
Words to live by. |
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JBradford84
Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2025
Posts: 64
Location: Tulsa, OK
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2025 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: Pickup tube stud |
|
|
| zerotofifty wrote: |
| JBradford84 wrote: |
| zerotofifty wrote: |
| JBradford84 wrote: |
| zerotofifty wrote: |
| JBradford84 wrote: |
I was wondering if that’s possible. Humm
I thought about doing all the studs that way to be honest because I have a few leaking that I think need to be drilled out and step down studs installed. |
If the oil sump should not leak if your sump plate is..
1. flat, no dimples or bumps around the stud holes the plate can be hammered and or filed to correct this
2. paper gaskets in good condition.
3. acorn nuts used i.e. cap nuts
4. torque is correct
5 soft copper washers used above the nuts. beware some counterfeit washers are steel with copper plating, use magnet to weed out the steel ones. you want copper, AND you want the copper to be soft. sometimes the copper is hard ( work hardened.) the copper can be annealed to be soft by heating to red hot on a stove top or with a flame, then allowed to slowly air cooled washer that are soft will seal well, they must be in good condition, eventually be replace if distorted.
oil will get past the stud threads, but is above items are good, it oil wont make it out and drip |
1. Brand new billet sump plate and I’ve confirmed it’s flat. But it leaked on my original sump plate too.
2. I’ve tried paper gaskets and wolfberg silicone. Both leak.
3. Is using brand new acorn nuts.
4. Torque is “hand tight” with a thumb ratchet. I know one stud is stripped but it’s not the one in question in my original post and I have a step stud to fix it.
5. I’ve discovered this about the crush washers and luckily my local vw shop seems to sell good ones. |
You need the soft copper gaskets for each acorn nut, I dont see that on your list. I assume the crush washer is for the central drain plug, or are you referring to the acorn nut copper washers as a crush washer?
if your sump plate is flat, place it on the case with no gaskets, no strainer, then tighten it down with the acorn nuts, Use your feeler gage to detect warpage between the sump plate and case.
It is very rare to have a warped case.
the solution maybe a very soft thick gasket for the sump. I have not experienced such an anomaly. |
You are correct. I consider the washers are the acorn nuts crush washers also. I’ll give the feeler gauge tip a try.
I have not received an answer to my original question. Can you double nut the stud that goes thru the pump arm to keep that stud from be able to spin? |
Yes, you will need to get a wrench on the internal nut, then double nut the external part of the stud, and then you should be able to secure the internal nut nice and tight, but only if so the threads on the case are good.
So YES!
Good luck!
PS a thin short armed wrench is usable for this too. I have some that are about3 or 4 inch length, low profile. A curved handle type is very nice for this, perhaps like these?
https://www.homedepot.com/pep/KING-5-Piece-Half-Mo...GvZKUEWI3y
You may need to cut the handle short on these curved wrench but maybe not. You may need to do a bit of grinding down of the box end to make it thinner an increase clearance |
Thanks for the info.
To follow up previous conversations, the case is flat where the sump plate seats. I put my billet sump plate on granite and confirmed it’s flat with feeler gauges and then mounted it to the case with no gaskets or strainer and checked it with feeler gauge and it’s good. I know I have 2 studs that are striped and I am getting repair studs tomorrow from my local VW parts house to fix them. |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 80492
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2025 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: Pickup tube stud |
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Try to get a 6/7 studs vs the standard 6/8. You literally just tape the hole larger, no need to drill it first.
6/7 (left) 6/8 (right)
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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JBradford84
Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2025
Posts: 64
Location: Tulsa, OK
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| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2025 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: Pickup tube stud |
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| Didn’t know that was even an option! I’ll see what they have for options when I get to the store. I haven’t seen 6/7 anywhere on vw sites. |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 80492
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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richparker
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011
Posts: 7772
Location: Durango, CO
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2025 11:05 am Post subject: Re: Pickup tube stud |
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| richparker wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
All bolt and from the inside out.
The only time the sump is coming off is when the engine is coming apart.
I smear Right Stuff on a single paper gasket and at first only tighten it till the nut stops. Then 8 hours later I remove the nuts, one at a time, and reinstall with blue Loctite and torque to 8ft-lb.
Never a leak. |
Thanks! |
What length bolts are you using? Are you using Washers under the heads and nuts?
_________________
__________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
’71 Double Cab |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 80492
Location: Sneaking up behind you
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2025 11:39 am Post subject: Re: Pickup tube stud |
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I forget the length, just long enough so there's a few threads past the nut.
Nothing under the heads and washer/nut on the end with blue loktite.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
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