| Author |
Message |
Rocky Mountain Westy
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2008
Posts: 1038
Location: Fort Collins Colorado
|
 Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:44 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| PDXWesty wrote: |
| Rocky Mountain Westy wrote: |
Yes we can make them to fit. We will be making the new pipes to totally elimante those hoses. The stainless pipes will go right to the radiator and just have short standard hose couplers. This is a late spring project. Let me know if you need a custom set sonner.
Mike |
I would think you need some longer hose couplings or a couple short ones in the system so that it won't be so rigid. I would hate for a small impact to bend a coolant pipe and ruin a large piece of the system. I'd rather have it in smaller easily replacible pieces. |
Excellant Point. We will take that into consideration in the design. We love getting feedback and ideas from our customers. A lot of or products are born in our customers minds.
_________________
Van Cafe & Rocky Mountain Westy Inc.
www.rockymountainwesty.com
970-310-3441
[email protected]
The Splitzgauer build (when I have time to work on it and update the thread)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=497133 |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
dhermanesq
Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2006
Posts: 160
Location: MKEWI
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I hate the way you all try to prove one another wrong. Maybe y'all should work toward a common goal:
Keeping your van on the road, reliably.
'Nuff said.
_________________
1993 VW Eurovan 5-Speed
1995 Mercedes S600 v12 (Rides again!)
2001 Passat V6-30v |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
msinabottle
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2005
Posts: 3492
Location: Denver Area, Colorado
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:49 pm Post subject: While We're Bending Pipe... |
|
|
I've seen the Rocky Mountain Westy Plant as of last September and it was pretty darn impressive then. If the Labate brothers say they can do something, I am very, very willing to believe that they can do it, and do it well.
While we're on the subject of bent steel pipes, advanced cooling systems (and talk to Chris/tencentlife about his high-flow exhaust system for the 1.9, please!)... May I throw out an idea for everyone's consideration:
Steel Fuel Lines
Particularly the ones in the engine compartment itself. My 1970 Dodge Dart has steel fuel lines. I have a feeling they wouldn't be that hard to adapt to a design that desperately, desperately, needs them.
Best!
_________________
'Winston,' '84 1.9 WBX Westy
Vanagon Poet Laureate: "I have suffered in
many ways, but never, never, never in silence." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Zinc anodes |
|
|
| r39o wrote: |
http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/html/anode.html
http://www.jcwhitney.com/RADIATOR_CORROSION_INHIBI...000879;0;0
So what about these to save us from the awfulness of galvanic corrosion?
(They work in my old Mercedes with steel blocks, aluminum heads, steel and stainless steel pipes. Well, at least they seem to work.)
(They are also in your home water heater. The longer the rod, the longer the life of the heater. And they charge you a lot more for a longer zinc rod. You can order rods, at least for the Sears water heaters. Wonder why mine is still good from 1985???)
So what about them????? |
So since nobody seems to want to actually discuss this, I looked. Guess what? As you might suspect, there are already a few things in the cooling system that would cause corrosion. I suppose we could have guessed that already. The stainless pipes will just make it worse. The cure is the Zinc anode. (better would be Magnesium...) No big deal. See the chart:
Magnesium and Magnesium Alloys -1,60 to -1,63
Zinc -0,98 to -1,03
Aluminum Alloys -0,76 to -1,00
Mild Steel-0,60 to -0,71
Wrought Iron -0,60 to -0,71
Cast Iron -0,60 to -0,71
Type 410 (13% Chromium) Stainless Steel -0,46 to -0,58
Type 304 ( 18-8 ) Stainless Steel -0.46 to -0,58
Type 316 ( 18-8, 3% Mo Stainless Steel -0,43 to -0,54
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Christopher Schimke
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5549
Location: PNW
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Zinc anodes |
|
|
| r39o wrote: |
| So since nobody seems to want to actually discuss this, I looked. Guess what? As you might suspect, there are already a few things in the cooling system that would cause corrosion. |
Walt, thanks for taking the time to look this up. It's all pretty solid science and it's pretty easy to find the answers. I was just tired of it and wasn't checking these two main threads anymore...until now or course.
Yes, there ARE other metals in the cooling system that can contribute to the corrosion issue, but you have to think in terms of exposure. A brass fitting here and there is not going to cause many issues, but when you consider the combined surface area of two stainless steel cooling tubes running front to rear, the exposure is so much greater, which leads to a greater liklihood of having corrosion issues. Yes, including a sacraficial anode like zink would help, but my question is why not start with a better material choice to begin with? I guess some people are just too attached to their notion that stainless is the cure-all for all things corrsion related when in reality, that is not necessarily true.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Timwhy
Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2009
Posts: 4101
Location: Maine
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks to everyone that posted that have SS pipes installed.
Just ordered a set from GW and should have them in a week or so.
I think that there was some great debate over their use in our vans.
I think that the harsh environment that I currently live in they make perfect sense. Extreme temps in the winter, and salt on the roads months after all the snow has melted. I do think that after all the debate a Zinc anode maybe a purchase of mine before I do the install of the pipes.
_________________
'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Timwhy&show_results=summary
http://www.youtube.com/user/TIMWHY2?feature=mhee |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iceracer
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2006
Posts: 981
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
So where can one buy the zinc anodes?
_________________
86 Syncro Wolfsburg edition
63 Beetle (The Iceracer) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
madspaniard
Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2008
Posts: 3795
Location: Alameda, CA
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| iceracer wrote: |
| So where can one buy the zinc anodes? |
and how/where do you install it?
_________________
1991 Westy auto w/ Peloquin TBD
"The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad” - Salvador Dali |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jeremysmithatshawdotca
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2002
Posts: 2530
Location: Edmonton, AB
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| madspaniard wrote: |
| iceracer wrote: |
| So where can one buy the zinc anodes? |
and how/where do you install it? |
I think you would want to get one that screws into the engine drain hole. Probably need a piece of zinc rod of a certain diameter and then thread it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rocky Mountain Westy
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2008
Posts: 1038
Location: Fort Collins Colorado
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| madspaniard wrote: |
| iceracer wrote: |
| So where can one buy the zinc anodes? |
and how/where do you install it? |
So we can install a threaded bung in our coolant tube and use a threaded Zinc coated bolt in there. Should be enough. We already install these on our Subaru Conversion pipes as a bleeder valve. Any Thoughts?
_________________
Van Cafe & Rocky Mountain Westy Inc.
www.rockymountainwesty.com
970-310-3441
[email protected]
The Splitzgauer build (when I have time to work on it and update the thread)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=497133 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Rocky Mountain Westy wrote: |
| madspaniard wrote: |
| iceracer wrote: |
| So where can one buy the zinc anodes? |
and how/where do you install it? |
So we can install a threaded bung in our coolant tube and use a threaded Zinc coated bolt in there. Should be enough. We already install these on our Subaru Conversion pipes as a bleeder valve. Any Thoughts? |
I really like the sound of a bung on both pipes.
Simplly for the ease of flushing.
I flush every two years on multiple vans.
Being able to have two points would be great.
I would open one and hook up air pressue at 15lbs. to the other.
This way all coolant can be removed and quickly.
If both were zinc coated...2 is better than one.
dylan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Rocky Mountain Westy wrote: |
| PDXWesty wrote: |
| Rocky Mountain Westy wrote: |
Yes we can make them to fit. We will be making the new pipes to totally elimante those hoses. The stainless pipes will go right to the radiator and just have short standard hose couplers. This is a late spring project. Let me know if you need a custom set sonner.
Mike |
I would think you need some longer hose couplings or a couple short ones in the system so that it won't be so rigid. I would hate for a small impact to bend a coolant pipe and ruin a large piece of the system. I'd rather have it in smaller easily replacible pieces. |
Excellant Point. We will take that into consideration in the design. We love getting feedback and ideas from our customers. A lot of or products are born in our customers minds. |
I feel a combination of hard lines in the center section of the van and flexible silicone hoses at the front and back would be ideal.
In the front you have to deal with mounting a spare and in the rear, all of the different conversions could have specific hoses.
I have been using -AN lines front to back for some time now.
If you plan ahead and have the skills to attach the fittings to you rad and engine....all is good, very clean and most of all, flexible. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 19069
Location: Retired South Florida
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
I have been using -AN lines front to back for some time now.
If you plan ahead and have the skills to attach the fittings to you rad and engine....all is good, very clean and most of all, flexible.
|
What size? 12AN or 16AN? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BlackDogVan
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2007
Posts: 855
Location: Vancouver Island
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| If the threaded bung option is being considered check out the pencil zincs used in marine gearbox oil coolers. The thread into the inside of a 1/4" NPT plug. http://www.harboranodes.com/pencil_zincs.html |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 10124
Location: Where?
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
RMW I really appreciate your attitude in this thread. It is welcome to see a vendor of coolant pipes that when confronted with a potential issue begins looking to solutions that would be easy for the customer to maintain. If I am ever in the market for stainless coolant pipes I am sure I will give you my business.
What surface area of sacrificial anode(s) would be needed to compensate for the surface area of the coolant pipes/aluminum engine parts?
_________________
I am a high-functioning autistic into VW diesels and Vanagons along with other things that are unrelated to this site. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
turbotransporter
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2006
Posts: 459
Location: Bainbridge Island WA
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="Rocky Mountain Westy"[/quote][quote="So we can install a threaded bung in our coolant tube and use a threaded Zinc coated bolt in there. Should be enough. We already install these on our Subaru Conversion pipes as a bleeder valve. Any Thoughts?"[/quote]
I'm following this thread quietly but with great interest. My first thought for the guys at RMW = "Live long and prosper" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52672
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
I am not saying adding a sacrificial anode will not make any difference, I will just say I just don't know. To a large extent it is the relative area of the anode to the protected metal that makes the difference. The anode area is going to be pretty small while the area of the aluminium block is going to be pretty large. Really don't know what area counts. Is it the total aluminium area or just whatever small areas where the protective oxide is damaged by erosion, such as around the water pump impeller or where the head "waterbox" gasket moves a bit?
To be of any good the anode would also need to be electrically connected to the block. If you install the anode in the coolant lines and then install a jumper from the coolant lines to the block you would likely be worse off than having no anode and having electrically isolated cooling lines.
Just thoughts!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| rsxsr wrote: |
| Quote: |
I have been using -AN lines front to back for some time now.
If you plan ahead and have the skills to attach the fittings to you rad and engine....all is good, very clean and most of all, flexible.
|
What size? 12AN or 16AN? |
Depends upon the application.
the equation for the sizing is: xxAN/16AN = ID of hose in inches.
12AN/16AN = 3/4"
16AN/16AN = 1"
and so on.
I have had the luxury of reusing many of my lines from race cars I have owned or maintained. Many of the Porsches run front to back lines.
We swap in new lines with engines or hours on the engines on a regular basis.
Some of the lines I have used are from eBay as well.
Baja trucks and sandrails use them to plumb the radiator in a rear position. Most of these lines will work. IIRC, 11ft. is a good length to start experimenting with.
If using lines for oil or trans fluid, I highly recommend a Oberg scavanger on the line. It works like a filter and will grab metal particles. They are not the easiest to clean without fully disassembling, so take that into consideration when placing it inline.
dylan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 19069
Location: Retired South Florida
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I am confused then. You do have AN lines running front to rear for your radiator? If so were they AN16? thank you |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
I am running a larger diameter that is special order for Porsches.
16AN is smaller than the stock plastic lines. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
