Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
12v conversion
Page: 1, 2, 3  Next
Forum Index -> Beetle - 1958-1967 Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
v8Hunter
Samba Member


Joined: March 22, 2005
Posts: 26

v8Hunter is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:47 am    Post subject: 12v conversion Reply with quote

if a car was converted to 12v did they have to put that bushing on the started or could or would it not have it since still has the 1200cc motor?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
TeamSpatula
Samba In The Rain


Joined: February 03, 2004
Posts: 5207
Location: WNC
TeamSpatula is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should replace the starter bushing when you swap over to a 12v starter.
_________________
<---Air Cooled Search & Rescue Team - STICKERS & T-shirts for sale!
1986 Wolfsburg Edition Westy Weekender
SEEKING turbo diesel engine conversion kit/parts
http://www.TeamSpatula.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
v8Hunter
Samba Member


Joined: March 22, 2005
Posts: 26

v8Hunter is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

im not changing starters or atleast i didnt plan on it, i want to put a 1600cc motor in but not sure if the starter i have will work, the car is already converted to 12v but dont know if the starter was changed or if they put the bushing in already the PO had it done years ago at the VW dealer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
v8Hunter
Samba Member


Joined: March 22, 2005
Posts: 26

v8Hunter is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

so is it true that since the car was converted to 12v that they must have put the bushing in or the starter wouldnt be working right? man im confused!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
RareAir
Samba Member


Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 14575
Location: 18 miles North of the border
RareAir is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your car is already equipped with a 12v starter, then yes the correct bushing is already intalled. The only way a 12v starter would fit without the bushing is if you've got the self supporting 12v starter which requires no bushing.
_________________
1947 Typ 11a
1954 Typ 117
1956 Typ 151
1959 Typ 117
1959 Typ 265
1961 356B
1966 Typ 151
1966 Typ 241
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Teeroy Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: April 20, 2003
Posts: 3544
Location: Eastern WA
Teeroy is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:04 am    Post subject: 12volt conversion Reply with quote

If the car was changed to 12 volt but still had the 1200cc engine , you need to pull the starter first to see what you need to do , the starter may not have been changed and it could still be 6 volt . There are many ways to convert to 12 volt (right and wrong) so unless you did the swap (didn't sound like it) you need to see what parts are in there now . If it still has a 6 volt , it will have to be changed to work with the ring gear on the 1600cc , you can change the bushing to match the new starter or better yet , use an 12volt autostick starter , that needs no bushing , you will also need to clearence the bellhousing for the larger 200mm 12volt flywheel (unless flywheel was swapped on 1200cc) TROY
_________________
Pres. Rivercity VW Club www.rcvwclub.org
Founder Derr Wheat Panzers (DWP)
ARR #3
www.autosportsnorthwest.org
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
v8Hunter
Samba Member


Joined: March 22, 2005
Posts: 26

v8Hunter is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

would a 6v starter work with a 12v system? and what does the bushing do? sounds like if i want to put this 16oocc engine in i need to change the starter completly.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
v8Hunter
Samba Member


Joined: March 22, 2005
Posts: 26

v8Hunter is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and if it does still have the 6 volt starter and i need this bushing then i need the one for 6v to 12v right, i dont know what was changed so if i get that bushing is it what i need to put this 1600cc in with out changing the starter completly
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Teeroy Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: April 20, 2003
Posts: 3544
Location: Eastern WA
Teeroy is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:26 pm    Post subject: 12 volt conversion Reply with quote

Yes a 6volt starter will work on 12 volt (it just spins faster) if you still have a 6 volt flywheel . If the 1600 has a 200mm 12 volt flywheel you will have to put in a 12 volt starter , 6volt (180or200mm) flywheels & 12volt 200mm flywheels have different amount of teeth . You need to take it apart and see what is in there now before you can know what you need !!!!!! TROY

PS the easiest starter swap would be the autostick self supporting starter , no busshing required , on a manual starter the bushing supports the bendix gear , and yes if the starter is still 6 volt , you will need a 6 to 12 volt bushing (need to take your old one with you , there are several OD sizes).
_________________
Pres. Rivercity VW Club www.rcvwclub.org
Founder Derr Wheat Panzers (DWP)
ARR #3
www.autosportsnorthwest.org
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
v8Hunter
Samba Member


Joined: March 22, 2005
Posts: 26

v8Hunter is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok i think i got it now. to be safe and do it right i should get a 12v starter and a 6v to 12v bushing or the autostick starter right.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Teeroy Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: April 20, 2003
Posts: 3544
Location: Eastern WA
Teeroy is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:28 am    Post subject: 12 volt conversion Reply with quote

Yes , if the 1600cc engine has a 200mm 12volt flywheel , like it should , that is exactly what you need to do . TROY
_________________
Pres. Rivercity VW Club www.rcvwclub.org
Founder Derr Wheat Panzers (DWP)
ARR #3
www.autosportsnorthwest.org
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
v8Hunter
Samba Member


Joined: March 22, 2005
Posts: 26

v8Hunter is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok new starter and bushing are on the way thanks for the help.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
rusty57
Samba Member


Joined: October 21, 2003
Posts: 2089
Location: Bakersfield,CA.
rusty57 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is what i understand. This is the same situation i have with my wife's car. It is a 66. Originally 6 volt. At some point, a half assed 12 volt conversion was performed, much like the ones i've too done in the past. Change the battery, all bulbs, and maybe the generator/or to 12V alternator. Kits are relatively cheap, and pretty straight forward. I always put off the starter, and flywheel, because they are a pain, and leaving the 6 Volt crap in there, works just fine...for a while. The starter is now spinning up a lot faster with the 12 V battery. This causes the teeth on the 6 V flywheel to wear and even chip off. Look at this example of my current 6 volt flywheel. you may be able to see the damage.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This flywheel has fewer teeth than a 12 V flywheel, wich is what i now have.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


By the way, i have a new rebuilt motor with a 12 V flywheel all ready to go side by side. That is why i'm doing this upgrade. Not because i really wanted to.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


So, i removed the 6V starter and bought a used 12V starter for around $20. Here they sit side by side.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This is a close up of the 6V starter as it came out. The bushing you speak of stays in the bell housing.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The big hole underneat the little hole with all the grease on it, is where the old bushing is. You must remove it.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Purchase the correct 12V starter bushing for a few bucks. Should look like this.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It goes here on the 6V starter.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is the bushing and the high temp/pressure grease you need to do this.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Put it all over the joint.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Should look something like this.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Re-install and end up like this.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Remember, the bell housing will need to be ground down a bit around the mounting bolts and a couple other spots. This is necessary to install new 12 V flywheel in old 6V tranny. No big deal, just take your time and make it right.

I hope this explains the whole bushing problem to all. If anyone wants more pictures of this or the next process, let me know and i'll post my ass off. Good night to all.
_________________
67 Ghia coupe, Retired military.
www.TagDefender.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bill may
Samba Member


Joined: August 27, 2003
Posts: 14160
Location: san diego,ca
bill may is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SR13X is 6volt automaic/autostick starter. used on 66 k.ghia engine # F0741385 to F0940714(april 66) to vin # 146350065 flywheel part number 141 105 271 keep this info for future use when doubters say ''"6 volt autostick/autimatic starter??? i doubt it""
_________________
Admin note: Bill Passed away - July, 2017

1965 panel bus-Kermit
"Camping is cheaper than therapy"
www.sv2s.com
www.steeringboxscrapers.net
SBS #100
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=453617
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
v8Hunter
Samba Member


Joined: March 22, 2005
Posts: 26

v8Hunter is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rusty57 that was awsome, i noticed that you put the 6v starter back in, will the 12v starter not fit?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
rusty57
Samba Member


Joined: October 21, 2003
Posts: 2089
Location: Bakersfield,CA.
rusty57 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I installed the 12 V starter. Why you ask? The one that says 70 bug is a 12V.
_________________
67 Ghia coupe, Retired military.
www.TagDefender.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
v8Hunter
Samba Member


Joined: March 22, 2005
Posts: 26

v8Hunter is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok cool youve been a big help thanks
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
v8Hunter
Samba Member


Joined: March 22, 2005
Posts: 26

v8Hunter is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rusty57 do you have a pic of the bell housing after you did the grinding?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
rusty57
Samba Member


Joined: October 21, 2003
Posts: 2089
Location: Bakersfield,CA.
rusty57 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, these pics where from just a little bit ago. I took them as i went. Tomorrow, i'll grind and built-up the motor for installation. I'll explain and show pics of every step i do. I must warn you, i'm not an expert. I just do it the way the book and a few expert friends tell me. I'm learning as i go. I have done the grinding before, but never took any pics. Tomorrow i'll post everything every few hours, so someone can hopefully use the info/pics. Good to know some of you are watching. If only one person looked, it was worth it to me. Stay tooned.
_________________
67 Ghia coupe, Retired military.
www.TagDefender.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
v8Hunter
Samba Member


Joined: March 22, 2005
Posts: 26

v8Hunter is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks man, im about to put i 1600cc in my car with the orignial tranny and was told i had to grind the bell housing i was thinking i had to grind around the whole thing but you said by the mounting bolts and a few other spots, looking forward to the pic's you been a great help thanks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Beetle - 1958-1967 All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB