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faster-laster
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2005 6:55 pm    Post subject: Safaris discussion thread Reply with quote

Summary of current Safari window providers as of July 17, 2014:
Thanks to Malokin Martin, joe56vw and EverettB
Quote:
EIS has a V channel that closely approximates the OG and is the best current repro.

Wolfgang is a close second and their shipping is insane fast. They were super friendly and you can have them shipped back for assembly after paint for no charge.

I think the CE ones are NOT safety glass and they use aircraft grade glue to hold the hinge to window metal together. Noted to be "Off road only" and several people have reported they had to re-glue them after a period of time.

Izzy (Isado Byrd) is currently not delivering safaris and owes people several sets - Ordering not recommended


Discussion about aftermarket Safari release pivots later in this thread


============================================

So everyone is tired of reading the occasional thread about what safari window is the best, right? I finally put the coin aside to purchase a set from Izzys for my 66 and what follows is a review of what I have seen and my impressions. The only disclaimier I will include is this is the only set I have installed, and actually really had time to look at.

There has been quite a bit of discussion about these windows, both the quality and the shipping. When I placed my order I asked about a time table. It was possible I would have them before Everybus, but was told not to really expect it. My order took about 2 months from phone call, till I received them. I knew to expect a wait, so I was not too worried about it. The windows arrived packaged well and safe. Unfortunately I was unable to get around to installing them for a few days.

I purchased the white powdercoated set. My initial review was quite favorable. A very well made part, that seemed to have no apparent manufacturing defects with very good craftsmanship. I was very happy with my purchase at this time.

The install was quite easy. There are two ways to install the windows to the upper window eve. One is to screw it directly w/ the included screws. The other is to use a safari window plate to give a stronger mount. I chose to use screws. The install instructions did not have the correct drill size listed, but fortunately I first did a visual w/ the recomended drill size and went down quite a few sizes. The strange thing is the drill size recommended in the instructions was 6/32". Not only is this too big, but my math teacher from middle school would have a heart attack for not reducing the fraction to 3/16" Wink I believe I used a 9/64" bit for a good size. Other than this the rest of the instructions were easy to follow and the parts all seemed to fit.

After I got the window centered in the hole it was time to fit the rubber seal. The seal seemed to fit ok, but around both bottom corners it didn't want to completely seal to the body on the outer lip. I was unable to really get it to seat to my satisfaction, but went ahead. It does however seem to seal very well to the window. The rest of the install with without any problems untill I finally got what I wanted. A rockin' set of safaris.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


So that's the good stuff. Below I'll try and include any issues with the kit and pictures. One thing that is just not correct is the angle of the bends. They are very close, but not 100% you can see the taper in this
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

and this (although it's a bit hard to make out)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Also here is a shot which shows the bottom of the window quite close to the body, but the edge next to the body window pilar to be much farther. Looking closer you can also make out the inconsistent seal to body lip on the pass window.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The support and locking hardware seems to function quite well. I was a bit worried when I iniatially locked them down the first time. It really felt like they were way to tight, but nothing broke. The next morning it was much easier as the rubber started to break in. Other than the installers lack of welding skill the locks and supports work and look good.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


When I first got the supports installed, I noticed that the arms wanted to rub against the rubber seal and try and pull it off it's track. This was not a good thing. Looking at the tabs on the windows it sure looks like they were not assembled w/ a jig. All were a bit off, and different amounts. The good thing is that after the hardware is attached and some tension put on the wing nuts the windows open easily and do not grab the seal, so that issue became a non issue.

It hasn't rained here since installing them, so I cannot comment on how much they leak. I will report later after a bit of precipitation falls.

The first test drive was nearly orgasmic! I can't believe I have waited this long to purchase a set of safari windows. What a fantastic way to add something to a vehicle I drive everyday. I love how it looks and the way adjusting the windows will adjust from a plesant breeze to galeforce head winds (and bugs). They performed very well at many different angles up to 65mph. Quite solid, with very little vibration and only at certain speeds. There is also no noise from them like whistling or that sort, so hopefully my future report will state it doesn't leak much.

Here it is from the front winking at me Wink
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


So, what was the final judgement. I would say this is a very complete kit that could only use a bit of tweeking in the initial jig setup during manufacturing to be a world class kit. I will also say that It's possible my window holes are not 100% stock shape. Anything could have happened over the course of nearly 40 years. It's possible that these windows fit perfect in a straight bus. I can only comment on what I have seen. I would not hesitate to purchase these again. I would like to thank Evilbus for giving me a thumbs up on the quality of the product, so that I went ahead and took a chance w/ Izzy. Hope you enjoyed it.

=================
Nut plate information:
abuspilot wrote:
Here's a pic of the og mounting plates.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Thread:
Safaris - installing a threaded plate?
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Tribalbus
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2005 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i own a set of izzies as well.very nice commentary bro.props for sharing.also nice work on the installation!if ya don't mind i'll take it one step further,if people are deciding to go safari.{once ya go "safari"ya don't go back! Cool }.i have installed all of the following in various buses:izzy,wolfgang,and busboys.if i had a chioce OVERALL i would take izzy's handsdown over the other two HOWEVER i do have some negative things to say.
the used izzy's windows i installed in my bus were basically scrap metal when i got them.the powdercoating on them flaked soo bad that it caused all the bottom corners to rust out completely.i had to replace two corners{fabbed my own sections}and repaired the other two.this all took a long [email protected] time!like 3 months for an hour after work.i hope he has staightened out the powder coating problems.the metal was not prepped properly.so it didn't stick.
ok,that was the bad,heres the good:design wise they are FAR surperior to to wolfsgang or bus boys.the "piano hinges" have oval{adjustible} screw holes so even if ya screw up a little bit drilling thew holes you can adjust.wolfgangs are not ovaled so once ya screw the windows down,if you were off ,there is no room for adjustment.you're screwd.no pun intended.constuction of izzy's windows are FAR surperior to the other two.also his latches are bulletproof!!!his seals are better too.they are one piece,unlike the other two.

also they all leak,i don't care what anybody says,its simple,if ya don't have a garage to put your bus in DON'T put safaris in.you will trash the floor in your bus in short order.its that simple.i waited 8 years to finally find a garage before i would install them in mine.good luck to you all!............Louis
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Last edited by Tribalbus on Mon May 09, 2005 9:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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Andrew
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2005 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anybody have any experience with both Creative Engineering's versus Izzy's safaris?
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krusher
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2005 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the current exchange rate the creative engineering safari's are $660 plus shipping. for there cheapest version.

So far I have heard izzy's 2 months for delivery?

Creative, delivery dosent happen quiockly at all and he does not reply to e-mails Crying or Very sad

If your selling a product shurly you can get it too somone within a 2 week period, even if you have to make it. Confused

What exactly is Izzy up to for 2 months? Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Erik G wrote:
hey just so yall know, around the JHC mansion, it's a combo of izzy's windows with wolfgang's seals. perfect combo

which seals from wolfgang, the cheap ones they say work better, or the more expensive original style ones?
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Yustrn
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oilspot wrote:
Erik G wrote:
hey just so yall know, around the JHC mansion, it's a combo of izzy's windows with wolfgang's seals. perfect combo

which seals from wolfgang, the cheap ones they say work better, or the more expensive original style ones?


The cheap ones, just installed them with my Izzy's this weekend.
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have to glue the body seals in place?
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yustrn wrote:
oilspot wrote:
Erik G wrote:
hey just so yall know, around the JHC mansion, it's a combo of izzy's windows with wolfgang's seals. perfect combo

which seals from wolfgang, the cheap ones they say work better, or the more expensive original style ones?


The cheap ones, just installed them with my Izzy's this weekend.

do you have any pics of what the "cheap" seals look like installed? they say they don't look anything like the original, but then they don't include a picture.
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js99nielsen
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bongo wrote:
Do you have to glue the body seals in place?


I had a set of Izzy's in a 67 westy I sold last year land loved them. I did not glue the seals in place so that after driving in the rain I'd open the windows up and pull the body seals off to make sure the window lip dried...I was afraid that gluing them in could trap in more moisture. Also...my safaries really didn't leak...maybe I was just lucky and everything fit so well but I seriously wouldn't get a single drop of water inside and trust me...it rains here in Oregon. Just my 2 cents.
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jason, good job, can't wait to see them in person, Then we can do a little comparison. I have the Creative engineering windows. I've had mine on for three years now, Bus is garaged, but not a daily driver like Jason. He's hard core. It took me just about four weeks to get mine from Dave Palmer, they are very nice, and worth the wait. I ordered them primered, as I was painting my Bus, so now they match. I've had minor leaks on the highway in a heavy rain. I keep a couple of towels handy just in case, and dry things out as soon as I can. As far as I can tell, CE's are a very close duplicate of the orginals I have seen, right down to the shape of the latch mounts, and the slider mounts. I have read on here somewhere that Orginal parts will interchange with CE's. Except for the lousy exchange rate right now, I would not hesitate to buy Dave's again. True, e-mail is not answered as well as some would like, but when I rang the phone Mandy answered. Everything was well packaged, and arrived in great shape.
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Isn't that latch on backwards?
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought so too Crofty, but was too chicken to say as I don't really know for certain! Embarassed
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crofty wrote:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Isn't that latch on backwards?


not compared to the safari instructions. take a look at step 27. it's the only picture that shows them installed, with both handles pointing out instead of in.

seems a bit funny, but that's how the picture shows it installed.
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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hard to see, but they point inwards #27..
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should clarify. They point outwards in respect to the individual window it latches. That is the outside latches of both windows point towards the doors on the same side, but the inboard ones point towards each other.
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya know, I was gunna say something about those latches too. But step 27 don't lie! I'll be.... I just went and looked up the directions that came with my CE's, and they have them pointing toward each other, not away, as shown in the org. installation guide. I sure thought you had 'em in wrong. Guess I do. So is there a right and wrong way, any purists out there ever see what an original install looks like? Or did it just depend what day it was on the assembly line?
Andrew, would love to get over there, but not this weekend, just not enough time.. I still need to see your Bus.....
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the difference in height of the dash tabs? I know one is shorter than the other. A friend told me that he's seen people use the vent window tabs for safaris!?!?
The tabs are pretty pricey, and I can only throw so much $$$$ into my bus at a time.
Sorry for the hijack, just couldn't help but ask since I keep looking at the closeup pics of the tabs in the pics.
can't wait to get my safaris in, it's getting hotter and hotter every day!
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

so were can i by safari windows? Question
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gruvborg wrote:
so were can i by safari windows? Question


many online vendors carry them, do a search in the archives for some specific vendors.

On another note. I said I'd report back after I ran the windows in a bit of rain. Well the leak. crazy like. I was not happy with it at all. I have a set of wolfgang new style seals that will go back in. Hopefully that will help. I think the only thing Izz could do to these seals to make them work really well would be a metal reinforced clip to really make the seals stay right next to the body. I'll be on the road for 3 weeks coming up, so I should have a really good idea of that these new seals can actually seal.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the leak. crazy like. I was not happy with it at all. Hey jason I have an OE set on Ole Gray my 59 panel and they leak also Best thing is to POR 15 the floors real well and I carry an old pair of Converse shoes to wear when it rains Laughing You will also find that you wont be able to open them too far and drive very fast without goggles the Air will peel your eyelids back One of the coolest things I have seen was apix of a panel bus with them that had a telephone pole stuck all the way thur the bus . Now what other vehicle can do that Shocked Later and have fun Mark Dearing PS hey jason get a golden eagle pass for the national parks , go to jackson hole and check the park with the elk fence around it , You can save some money by camping off the fireroads in the tetons instead of the crowds in the campgrounds in yellowstone , just stop in there only to shower and laundry , be careful of bears wish I could join ya
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