Is this normal for 2000 miles?

WesleyGarrard · Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:53 pm Post subject: Is this normal for 2000 miles?

Here are some pictures of the #2 rod bearing

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

There seems to be a deep groove in one of the bearing halves. I pulled the #1 bearing and it shows similar wear but no deep grooves.

The crank has no grooves or any blemishes and looks as if it were just polished.

This seems a bit abnormal to me but I wanted to ask the community. I have only been in the VW game since 2007 so I am no expert.

Thanks

dlxcoupe · Samba Member Joined: May 02, 2006 Posts: 941

That is far from normal. should not see anything but a smooth insert with oil on it.

Max Welton · Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:02 pm Post subject:

Looks like some crud got in there. How were the oil galleys cleaned?

Max
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61SNRF · Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:07 pm Post subject:

Looks like debris or foreign matter got in bearing. It could have been not assembled clean or it could have come in with the oil from an oil galley that wasn't cleaned well enough.
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WesleyGarrard · Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:24 pm Post subject:

Used some rifle brushes and power purple to clean the galleys. Then used compressed air to blow them out. Then cleaned the brushes and repeated. Did this until Power purple came out looking the same way it went in. Did the same thing with the oil galleys on the crank. So I guess new bearings are in order and another strict cleaning regiment..

dlxcoupe · Samba Member Joined: May 02, 2006 Posts: 941

What about the crank throw? It could be out of round? Was the crankshaft mic'd?

WesleyGarrard · Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:38 pm Post subject:

yes it was mic'ed and polished by a local machine shop. It has never been cut so it is still standard on the rods and mains, they said it was in great shape so I don't think it is the crank. I may try another set of rods too. Those were rebuilt ones so I may try a new set.

Max Welton · Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:49 pm Post subject:

Max Welton · Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:51 pm Post subject:

Also, how about the cooler? That's another place swarf can hide.

Max
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WesleyGarrard · Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:12 pm Post subject:

Yea I did pull the galley plugs. But the cooler is an extra one I had. the last one I had was brand new and developed a pinhole leak so I tossed it and put the old one on. I didnt even think about any goo up in there.

dlxcoupe · Samba Member Joined: May 02, 2006 Posts: 941

Did you plasti-gage the inserts? to determine clearance between insert and crank throw? Possibly the clearance was tight .. just a thought.

WesleyGarrard · Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:30 pm Post subject:

yup used plastigauge and mic's. Plasti gave me a clearance of .002? if I remember correctly. The mic showed a measurement that was just a hair under what the plasti showed. But I think I will just tear the engine all the way down and see what else is wrong.

As far as cleaning the cooler. How well would a flush work to get the crud out

Max Welton · Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:28 pm Post subject:

I'll reuse a cooler if I know its history. But any cooler that has been on an engine that failed is suspect in my book. A brand new type-1 cooler is what ... $75 or so?

I do have to compromise when it come to my type-3, since nobody makes new type-3 coolers. For that I fill the cooler with carb cleaner and let soak overnight. Then drain and rinse thoroughly with clean solvent and shoot compressed air through it. Flush in the opposite direction from the normal oil flow.

I bet you could also take one to a place that does radiators. Might cost as much as just buying that new cooler, though.

Max
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Joey · Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:57 am Post subject:

So you pulled your engine apart after 2000 miles just to see what the bearings looked like?
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drscope · Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:44 am Post subject:

drscope · Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:48 am Post subject:

I just went back and looked at your pictures.

Notice you have some pretty extreme wear in the center of the bearing, but not near the ends of the bearing.

That tells me your bearings don't fit your rods.

It's difficult to tell from photos, but it doesn't look as if this was crud in the oil supply. It looks more like a change in the bearing surface caused by incorrect tolorances and heat.
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WesleyGarrard · Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:08 am Post subject:

What is the proper clearance on the rod bearings? I loaned my manuals to my cousin so i dont have them here right now. But if I remember right they were between .002 and .004 maybe? All I know is that I mic'ed all the rods, bearings and the crank journals and they were within spec. What are the correct tolerances for 1965 crank and rods?

WesleyGarrard · Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:16 pm Post subject:

So I referenced the manuals and it looks like factory specs were .0008-.0027. I have also been told that some performance motors run them around .003. This is just a mild performance 40hp and the second one I have built.

But the more I think about it may be the rods themselves. I had three sets of 40hp rods. two were stockers and one was some low priced rebuilt units of the classifieds. I took all three sets along with the crank to a local machine shop. I asked them to measure all the rods and rebuild them if necessary.

I also asked them to check out the crank and cut it if it needed. They told me it was perfect so I just told them to polish the journals for extra reassurance.

They told me they found the 4 best rods that required no rebuild and balanced them out to make a set. Maybe because they were not originally a matching could be the problem?

anyway here is a pic of the rest of the bearings

They all seem to show the same wear. Does it still look like a tolerance issue Doc?

dlxcoupe · Samba Member Joined: May 02, 2006 Posts: 941

You did have a fit issue.. the rods should be sized. That means they are set back to standard. Usually done when the crankshaft is getting its machining done.. That motor was destined for destruction and you probably heard it doing bad things the short time you had it running...good luck!

baked beetle · Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:38 pm Post subject:

my std rod bearings usually plastigage out at .0038 and have never seen that damage
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