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Head Removal "In Situ"?
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VWLover77
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:24 am    Post subject: Head Removal "In Situ"? Reply with quote

I'd like to check out the heads on my '78 Westy. I know I've got one leaky exhaust valve, at least.

I believe it is possible to remove the heads without dropping the motor, but is there any advantage to doing this? Seems like it would be more work trying to wrestle them out of there than to just drop the motor and be done with it.

Thoughts?

Don
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VDubTech
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the 25 minutes it takes me to drop the motor and tranny out of my '79, I would drop the whole thing......
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borninabus wrote:
a measurement of your rod would be extremely useful.

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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Possible to do, although not worth it IMNSHO.

Drop the whole thing and do it unhurried and uncramped in your garage. That will allow you to change the fuel vapor lines that are on top of the tank and do some engine tin painting at the same time.
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Duncwarw
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just finished mine.

Not bad at all. One place where you'll have a wrestling match on your hands is likely to be the left head. The tin around the cooler doesn't like to let the head past. Having done it, and having wrestled with the engine before, I wouldn't hesitate to do it in situ again.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The more I look at it, and Colin's pics, the more I think it's the best way if dropping an engine isn't possible (ie: Living in an apartment, etc.)

It may take just as much time as dropping however.
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Amskeptic
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would do it in situ if the car is your best engine stand. It was the only engine stand I had in that parking lot in Glendale. I did not have any trouble with the #4 rear upper tin that nestles ahead of the cooler because I had already taken off the fan housing. I don't know if the head can be romoved with the fan housing in place. If you are hoping to sneak the head off with the fan housing in place, you might have to bend stuff. . . bend it back nicely when you are done.
Colin
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Last edited by Amskeptic on Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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zabo
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey VDubTech

next time you drop your engine can you make a video or something?
I dont see how you get that out in 25 min. I would seriuously like to see how you do it I think it ook me over 5 hrs but that was my first time.
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jberger
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zabo wrote:
hey VDubTech

next time you drop your engine can you make a video or something?
I dont see how you get that out in 25 min. I would seriuously like to see how you do it I think it ook me over 5 hrs but that was my first time.



Once you do it a few times it is like butta.
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VDubTech
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zabo wrote:
hey VDubTech

next time you drop your engine can you make a video or something?
I dont see how you get that out in 25 min. I would seriuously like to see how you do it I think it ook me over 5 hrs but that was my first time.

I've done it a few times on my '79, it's cake.

Unhook the FI wiring harness from the ECU as well as wiring from the firewall, remove upper starter bolt.
Remove fuel lines and clamp them off.
Remove axle to tranny bolts.
Remove front engine mount and rear tranny mount, disconnect shift linkage at the tranny, remove starter.
Put a floor jack with a piece of wood on it underneath the engine, between engine and tranny.
Zip off the 2 remaining 15mm bolts at the top of the transmission.
Lower the engine and tranny and back it out from under the Bus.

I have to say that they first time I took the motor out, the heater cables broke and I haven't replaced them yet, since I never drive it in the winter, so that cuts down a little on the time. I'll be dropping it out again before winter so I can get my fuel tank boiled and lined. It also helps that I've taken it out about once a year, so I don;t have rusted, frozen fasteners to deal with or shitty old clamps that I can't get undone. Last time it took me less than 1/2 an hour to have it out and on the ground by myself. I also have a compressor and every imaginable air tool at my disposal since I make my living as a mechanic.
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borninabus wrote:
a measurement of your rod would be extremely useful.

notchboy wrote:
my dad wasnt a belittling cock when he tought me how to wrench on cars.

EverettB wrote:
One photo = good for reference.
10 photos = douchebaggery
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VDubTech
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget that clutch cable too....which I've also replaced along with the wing nut, comes right off....and the bowden tube from the tranny also...sitting here it's tough to remember it all, but it goes lick clockwork when I'm under the Bus.
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First Trip in the RustyBus:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=279077&highlight=
borninabus wrote:
a measurement of your rod would be extremely useful.

notchboy wrote:
my dad wasnt a belittling cock when he tought me how to wrench on cars.

EverettB wrote:
One photo = good for reference.
10 photos = douchebaggery
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USMCbug
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive removed and replaced both heads with the engine in. What a PITA. Id do it agan as Im sure I can do it faster now. The fan shroud does have to come off. I removed the FI system off the engine and yanked the shroud and alternator and got the tins off (painted them) and was able to get the heads.

The biggest prob I found was coercing (sp) the 1-2 head tins off with the air cleaner bracket in the way.
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mightyart
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did it in the partking lot of my apartment, they kind of frown on any engine pulling, I think I may have a bit more room in my engine compartment them you though. If it was just to have a look at it, I'd just go by compreesion readings and such. I didn't have much of a choice, next time I will plan better and pull the engine, that is the best option with these. Reminds me of when I was in the Army. I was an abrams tanker, and sometimes we had to pull the engine "pack". It was made to come out quick as one unit, that's what the vw engine reminds me of. My ultimate goal would be to have one complete engine sitting waiting, then if I had trouble with the one in the van, out it comes and the other one goes in, then I could fix it at my leasure. Day dreaming is fun. Laughing
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zabo
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VDubTech wrote:
Don't forget that clutch cable too....which I've also replaced along with the wing nut, comes right off...



nice tip the one originally on mine had a d head similar to the lower alt bolt
I spent at least 2 hrs trying to get that thing off- finally had to resort to the hacksaw Sad
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VWBusrepairman
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dropping the trans isn't necessary and it would be easier to simply pull the engine. Not all buses are as well behaved as Colin's, so there may be stubborn fasteners holding that tin on. you don't need an engine stand if you have a couple blocks of wood in place. Would also be a good time to clean/ inspect said engine while it is out on the ground.

I find it nice to have a strong assistant or at least a short female with skills to assist in lowering that engine. An ATV jack is a godsend!!! good luck in which ever method you choose.
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VDubTech
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it much easier to remove the engine and trans assembly as a unit. It's also easier to reinstall since they are already mated together, no wrestling around trying to get the splines to line up. I've done it both ways, and have found pulling both together to be much easier.
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First Trip in the RustyBus:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=279077&highlight=
borninabus wrote:
a measurement of your rod would be extremely useful.

notchboy wrote:
my dad wasnt a belittling cock when he tought me how to wrench on cars.

EverettB wrote:
One photo = good for reference.
10 photos = douchebaggery
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VWBusrepairman
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VDubTech wrote:
I find it much easier to remove the engine and trans assembly as a unit. It's also easier to reinstall since they are already mated together, no wrestling around trying to get the splines to line up. I've done it both ways, and have found pulling both together to be much easier.

In order to prevent this from turning into VDubTech vs. VWBusrepairman strategies of engine removal, we can just leave it as a preference. some like the engine/ trans combo removal, some like only the engine, but the people know it's possible to do it each way.

Tune in next time when VDubtech and I dispute the differences in valve adjustment procedures! Hydraulics vs. solid state. Wink
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MrBreeze
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VWBusrepairman wrote:
Tune in next time when VDubtech and I dispute the differences in valve adjustment procedures! Hydraulics vs. solid state. Wink


Oh, hell no! We're still dragging out the corpses from the last time that one came up! Twisted Evil
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Duncwarw
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW, I did NOT remove the fan housing though it would have made things easier.

I started to drop the engine and transaxle together for the first time, but it was such a PITA, I gave up after dropping the axles and just spent the time pulling the heads. I'd do it again the same way.

I've always dropped just the engine in the past and it can go only two ways. It either goes right in or...

A removable rear valance would have been nice.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A removable rear valance would have been nice.


Yes, it is.
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Duncwarw
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, YOU'RE the guy who did that mod?

I've thought about it every time it's in the way. Very Happy
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