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BoneStock67 Samba Member

Joined: January 27, 2006 Posts: 439 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:30 am Post subject: Turn signal switch repair |
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The turn signals on my '67 bug work, but the switch doesn't stay in place, so I have to hold it by hand. I haven't yet taken it apart to see if it's repairable, so I'd appreciate comments from anyone who has tried to fix this problem.
In the likely event that the switch does need to be replaced, my other question is, Does anyone have an opinion on the high quality German turn signal switch for $120 from Wolfsburg West, vs. the cut-rate knock-offs available elsewhere for half that amount?
Thanks. _________________ 1986 Wolfsburg Westfalia Weekender 2.1L stock
1967 Beetle, now becoming my daily driver again, after a long rest in the garage
"There are two possible outcomes: if the result confirms the hypothesis, then you've made a measurement. If the result is contrary to the hypothesis, then you've made a discovery.” -Enrico Fermi |
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67jason Samba Member

Joined: August 28, 2005 Posts: 4741 Location: behind my back feet - Pittsburg CA
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:32 am Post subject: |
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if you need to replace get the SWF switch..aka the high quality german switch. it is the OEM replacement. you will thank yourself if you do. |
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RareAir Samba Member

Joined: May 11, 2002 Posts: 14577 Location: 18 miles North of the border
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Joey Samba Member

Joined: August 12, 2005 Posts: 5376 Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
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BoneStock67 Samba Member

Joined: January 27, 2006 Posts: 439 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:59 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, RareAir, but I was unclear in my description. The switch to column attachment is fine. The problem is that the lever does not click into place, so I have to hold it up (or down) to make the turn signal blink. _________________ 1986 Wolfsburg Westfalia Weekender 2.1L stock
1967 Beetle, now becoming my daily driver again, after a long rest in the garage
"There are two possible outcomes: if the result confirms the hypothesis, then you've made a measurement. If the result is contrary to the hypothesis, then you've made a discovery.” -Enrico Fermi |
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Howard66 Samba Member

Joined: September 15, 2005 Posts: 138 Location: London, UK
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:25 am Post subject: |
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The same thing happened on my '66 a few years back. I took it apart to repair, but the reason the turn signal wasn't sticking was becuase the internals had been worn away over the years.
Can't remember what make the replacement was, but it's been working great since '99... That cost UK£50. _________________ 1966 Volkswagen 1300
1978 Triumph Dolomite Sprint
1962 MGA 1600 MKII
1962 Austin Mini Seven
1970 Triumph Spitfire IV
1965 Mobylette SP50
1985 Sinclair C5 |
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Matt K. Paint and Body Nutcase

Joined: January 14, 2005 Posts: 2598 Location: Hemet, So Cal.
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:17 am Post subject: |
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Your best bet it to take it apart and see if it is something easy to fix, if not, might just be easier to replace it.............good luck  _________________ This is my 23rd year in the Auto Body/Paint Game!
*Take a look at some of my custom paint: http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n119/mrpaint_2006/ .( NOTE: these are some older jobs but still neat.) |
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glutamodo  The Android

Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26448 Location: Douglas, WY
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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If you take it apart, just be careful where you do it - the centering spring can pop out of there and roll away and get lost. The brass contact for the turn signals and the little spring that gives it its tension can also get loose.
I bought an aftermarket 66-67 switch a couple of years ago, and that thing was junk! I wouldn't even use it, it was such a poor copy that the self cancelling parts inside wouldn't work right. I later got me an NOS one off of ebay for a lot less than that 90-120 dollar range that you find german ones for. I'm still waiting for the switch in my baja to kick the bucket, which is why I even bought it...
Which reminds me, has anyone actually seen or tried this thing that CIP1 has for sale? It sure doesn't look stock, and it's cheap, but does it work?
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC%2D113%2D953%2D517%2D9
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keifernet Samba Search & Rescue
Joined: May 11, 2002 Posts: 19395 Location: Samba Center for Behavioral Science
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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Never tried one of the ones you picture here but they are sure cheap at 20.00 bucks... the other more original one they sell is Brazillian SWF and is about 50 bucks...
glutamodo wrote: |
If you take it apart, just be careful where you do it - the centering spring can pop out of there and roll away and get lost. The brass contact for the turn signals and the little spring that gives it its tension can also get loose.
I bought an aftermarket 66-67 switch a couple of years ago, and that thing was junk! I wouldn't even use it, it was such a poor copy that the self cancelling parts inside wouldn't work right. I later got me an NOS one off of ebay for a lot less than that 90-120 dollar range that you find german ones for. I'm still waiting for the switch in my baja to kick the bucket, which is why I even bought it...
Which reminds me, has anyone actually seen or tried this thing that CIP1 has for sale? It sure doesn't look stock, and it's cheap, but does it work?
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC%2D113%2D953%2D517%2D9
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vwjedi Samba Member

Joined: November 29, 2005 Posts: 1463 Location: G-ville, FL - hopefully on a trail.
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:04 am Post subject: |
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my newly acquired '63 rag has the same problem. I would also be interested in a detailed photo of internals if you get it fixed or other affordable replacement.  _________________ 1987 Wolfsburg T25 still riding out. A bunch of other VW's passed on... |
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myk648 Samba Member

Joined: November 12, 2002 Posts: 550 Location: Xenia, Ohio
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:38 am Post subject: |
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Recently bought a 63 ragtop that had one of the cheap switches in it. It worked fine. Looked kind of cheesey, but it did function properly. |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2003 Posts: 255
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:09 am Post subject: |
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If you take your switch apart, BE CAREFUL!!!!! There are small springs in there that if you lose them, your done!
As far as repairing a sig switch, most advise I have heard is that it is almost impossible to disassemble, reapir,and reassemble on of those damn things!
Here a tip, loosen the screw that holds it to the column a little until the whole switch is a lilttle oose on the column.
Put some pressure on the part of the switch that attaches to the column toward the steering wheel. In other words, grab it an pull toward you (and the wheel), now while hold the pressure against the switch, tighten the screw that hold it to the column.
If you get it tight enough against the back of the wheel, the friction between the switch and the wheel will sometimes hold it in place.
This works on my 60, but I am not sure on your 67. _________________ How's that for a slice of fried gold! |
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glutamodo  The Android

Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26448 Location: Douglas, WY
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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vwjedi wrote: |
my newly acquired '63 rag has the same problem. I would also be interested in a detailed photo of internals |
Okay, heres some pictures! These are larger photos than I normally post, and I put them in the gallery. So you can click on them to enlarge for more detail.
This is a early 60's Ghia switch, of which I've detailed the headlight "clicker" before on. This switch is similar the SWF made switches made from 1960-1967. 1966 and 1967 were black, and have a similar headlight clicker button that this switch has, but that clicker plays no part in taking apart the swtich. (The 60-61, due to the extra complexity of the switch, have multiple contacts inside of them, this one only has one and is much easier to deal with as a result.)
Okay, pic one, the switch before dissembly:
Tip! Get a piece of fine wire, and wrap it around the "tips" of the contact, this way it will stay in place after the switch is apart. Like so:
Step three to disassemble, after wiring up the contact, pry off the center spring steel retaining ring. You'll need a pick or tip of a knife. This particular switch did not have a washer beneath the ring, but I've seen them there before. Here is how it looks with that ring removed:
Then you gently pull apart on the two halves of the switch, while rocking it from left turn to right turn. If you are lucky, as I was, the switch will pop apart and the large tensioning spring will stay in place. Often though, it will come flying out so be careful.
The self cancelling parts can pop loose, they need to be engaged as shown above before putting it back together. If they do come disengaged, this is how they might look:
Here is a close up of where the self cancelling assembly rides in the lower half of the housing. This one is in good shape. Both the "grooves" where it rides in, plus the tabs on the self cancelling parts can wear out. When this happens it may no longer lock in place when turning, or it may not self cancel any more. When the base is in good shape but the cancelling tabs are worn or damaged in the arm, I've seen it where you can take the arm from another switch and swap it over and it will work good again.
To put the switch back together, it needs to be assembled as shown in the pic three up from here. You place the two halves together "centered" - it won't go on all the way, you have to start rocking the swtich from left to right turns as you gently push the two halves together. If you're lucky they will pop together, put the big ring back on, check that it self cancels and you're done. If youre not lucky, the self cancelling parts will pop apart, or the big spring will come out, and you'll have to take it back apart, put them in their proper positions, and try again.
There were other designs of swtiches than this one. In my experience, this is the most common. I think I've seen one where you couldn't "lock" the contact(s) in place before you remove them, if so it's a bitch to get back together again. I've see it where there are discs on either side of the large centering spring. I've seen different designs of the self cancelling tabs/springs. But they are somewhat similar.
-Andy |
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BoneStock67 Samba Member

Joined: January 27, 2006 Posts: 439 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:51 am Post subject: |
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Wow! Thanks, Andy. Those are great pix and a great description. I'm planning to try the disassembly this weekend (I've got four kids so I need to take my bug-time when I can get it) and your post will be very helpful. Based on your description, though, I'm even less optimistic about being able to repair it, since it looks like there are no easily replaceable pieces involved in the locking mechanism, short of salvaging them from another switch.
I'll report back on what I find, and I'll post some pictures if the innards look substantially different than what you show. _________________ 1986 Wolfsburg Westfalia Weekender 2.1L stock
1967 Beetle, now becoming my daily driver again, after a long rest in the garage
"There are two possible outcomes: if the result confirms the hypothesis, then you've made a measurement. If the result is contrary to the hypothesis, then you've made a discovery.” -Enrico Fermi |
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itlives Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2005 Posts: 1424 Location: Shreveport La
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Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:16 am Post subject: |
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If all the "fix-its" fail ,I know where there is a OG in a wrecked 67. PM me if you're interested. |
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targa Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2005 Posts: 101 Location: Bellingham, WA the city of subdued excitement
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Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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glutomoto
Great How to!!! outstanding
Tom |
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BoneStock67 Samba Member

Joined: January 27, 2006 Posts: 439 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:55 am Post subject: |
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Well, I followed Glutamodo's instructions and had no problem at all taking my switch apart and putting it back together. But, there was excess wear on the grooves in the base, and the rivet that holds one of the cancelling tabs to the housing was broken, so I decided to call it a day. Somebody could probably repair it with some fancy metalwork, but that somebody ain't me.
I'm going to take 67jason's advice and buy the SWF switch from WW. I was thinking about getting a salvaged switch, but considering how they wear, I figure I'll get the new one and then forget about it for the next twenty years or so.
Thanks everybody. _________________ 1986 Wolfsburg Westfalia Weekender 2.1L stock
1967 Beetle, now becoming my daily driver again, after a long rest in the garage
"There are two possible outcomes: if the result confirms the hypothesis, then you've made a measurement. If the result is contrary to the hypothesis, then you've made a discovery.” -Enrico Fermi |
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glutamodo  The Android

Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26448 Location: Douglas, WY
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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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BoneStock67 wrote: |
...no problem at all taking my switch apart and putting it back together. But, there was excess wear on the grooves in the base, and the rivet that holds one of the cancelling tabs to the housing was broken.......
Thanks everybody. |
You're welcome.
I've seen both happen before. I've taken apart many switches over the years, and combined parts from two different bad ones to make one good one on more than one occasion. I was surprised as how nice the switch I took the pictures of above was inside. It may have been the nicest switch I'd ever taken apart. Got pretty darn lucky on that one too, at a swap meet last summer was someone selling a HUGE amount of parts, I think it was from a shop that had closed down. Nothing was organized, just boxes and boxes full of stuff - and the guy wanted to sell volume. I filled my arms up with stuff as went through it all, and went to ask him how much. Heck I expected to hear 40 or 50 bucks alone just for the switch (it IS an early 60's Ghia switch after all) but I think I got everything I had picked out total for less than that.
-Andy |
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glutamodo  The Android

Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26448 Location: Douglas, WY
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:11 am Post subject: |
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I keep forgetting to put these in the Gallery then into this thread, some misc reference photos of various 1960s turn signal switches:
-Andy
Here's a "K" brand (whatever that stands for) of a 60-61 style switch.
Here's "K" brand version of the 62-65:
Here's some unknown brand that looks like it would work for either 60-61 or 62-65 depending on how the contacts were installed
edit: I mention some cancel parts might be missing, I guess they are not. From another thread about a 61 wiper switch, here's a thread with a photo of the above type switch with all the contacts in place:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=395517
And here are some original SWF switches in 62-65 and 66-67 versions:
Also, some detail photos of an aftermarket Schadek 66-67 variety swtich:
Last edited by glutamodo on Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:35 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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lanceevox Samba Member

Joined: December 30, 2008 Posts: 238 Location: West Marin, CA.
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:49 am Post subject: |
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I need to fix this on my 63'... _________________ -Nikolai
1963 1200cc rag top bug
1970 1600cc SP bug. sold
1970 1600cc DP bug. sold |
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