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Engine Seal and Rear engine Seal How do u install?
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hsosa1
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:53 pm    Post subject: Engine Seal and Rear engine Seal How do u install? Reply with quote

Im preparing to install a new engine in my ghia and I have the new engine seals. Does anyone have pics on how to intstall these seals. I tried a trial run but couldnt figuare out which way the seal went on. I didnt have much light . There is an old seal in the firewall which I can try to copy but the rear seal is gone from the engine compartment. Thanks for the help beforehand.
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KPottorff
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not hard, just tedious.

The two seals different in length, mainly. You can tell which is which. The longest going around the back of the engine has no up or down. The one at the front of the engine I remember as being about the same. It's been a while since I worked on those seals.

And, speaking from experience, the seal DOES NOT go in by sliding it along from one end of the channel to the other. I wish I had those hours back...

I use a putty knife and pry up the top part of the lip in the seal channel. Don't overbend it - you just want to get enough clearance so the seal will go in when you push on it. Then start at one end and push the seal into the bottom lip and then under the top lip. Work your way around and expect sore fingers.

When the seal is in the channel, I use a small pice of wood and knock down the upper lip. It doesn't need to be hammered down like a nail. Just enough to hold the seal securely.
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crocteau
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hsosa1,
Here's a photo of the engine compartment seals I recently installed on my Ghia. The firewall seal only made sense to me in the orientation shown, but I debated with myself for awhile on the main seal. We can both benefit if someone notes that it's wrong and calls me on it. Wink

The shop where I'm working on my engine install has some spray silicone lube with teflon that's slicker than snot, and by applying it liberally I was able to slide the seal right around the channel. Without the spray I probably would have resorted to KPottorff's suggested method.
Good luck and post some pictures of your Ghia when you can!
Charley

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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KPottorff
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crocteau:

The orientation of seals is correct. That little lip on the longest seal is supposed to hook under the lip of the tin. It usually gets pushed up as the engine gets lifted into position. I make sure that the seal fills the gaps by pushing down on it with a small screwdriver as the engine goes in. It's really hard to push it through the gap after the engine is in because of the clearance. That rubber is really stiff and doesn't want to go through the gap.

The firewall seal really has no up or down. The split can be worked over the lip of the front tin - the tin sandwiched between the flaps - but I usually let it find its own way when I put the engine back in.

Slick spray is OK if it works for you.

The few times I've replaced the seals its been in an car where the channel is beat up by a previous owner and has all those little ripples that can grab at the rubber even with a lube applied. Especially when you start to negotiate the corners.

That's a really clean appearing area in the picture. I'm not surprised that the seal went in the way you described. And that's a nice shade of red, too.
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crocteau
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks KP! Good points. I was lucky the seal channel was in good shape on my Ghia.
It turns out the stock seal works well even with non-standard "tin"...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Charley
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westcoast-paul
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that is an interesting setup (drool)

do you have more pictures / specs?
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crocteau
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks westcoast-paul, but as you can see I still need to mount the carbs, alternator, etc. The engine is just a little something extra: a 2316 type IV from Jake Raby that ought to push this cabriolet along in style. Jake's DTM shroud is designed to cool the type IV efficiently in upright conversions like this. More to come...
Charley
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Max Welton
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A related question occured to me. Is there a source for replacement channel material for when the existing channel is all chewed up?
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KPottorff
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That explains why the engine shroud looks like the one in the just concluded series in HVWs mag. They were happy with the results.

Max, have you tried looking through the suppliers of body replacement parts? I didn't do that before writing this; it just occured off the top of my head.
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Roark
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:49 pm    Post subject: Raby and Seals Reply with quote

crocteau wrote:
Thanks westcoast-paul, but as you can see I still need to mount the carbs, alternator, etc. The engine is just a little something extra: a 2316 type IV from Jake Raby that ought to push this cabriolet along in style. Jake's DTM shroud is designed to cool the type IV efficiently in upright conversions like this. More to come...
Charley


Crocteau... Nice set up there, my long range plan is to put a Raby type IV in the 66 Ghia. I have the type IV case. I'd be very interested in your specs. Meanwhile, back on the subject of the seals... I wrote up my experience as a first time installer over in Body and Paint

Note that this was done on a 69 Type 1, not a Ghia... I'm guessing this is easier on the Ghia

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=172630

scroll to the bottom... Cool
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Jake Raby
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crocteau's engine was the last of my previous breed... He got the best of the new and the best of the old as a hybrid package that squeezed out some seriously usable power!

what a hell of an install job he is doing!!
WHOOHOO!!

An engine purchased from me today will have numerous differences than the engine you see pictured in pretty much every way!
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Max Welton
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KPottorff wrote:
Max, have you tried looking through the suppliers of body replacement parts? I didn't do that before writing this; it just occured off the top of my head.

Yeah, neither did I. Embarassed

Looks like it may just be part of the three deck sections.

http://www.karmannghia.com/viewDetail.asp?idProduct=4233

I was hoping for just the channel. Or at least a reasonable approximation.
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KPottorff
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bet that it won't be offered on its own. That's a lot of chiseling and welding to get the part replaced.

But I feel for ya. Those channels get really beat when the PO uses a small blade screwdriver to get the old rubber out. I've noticed that rust is rarely a problem in this area on the sedans and Ghias - probably because of the engine heat.
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74Ghia
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just replaced mine and the seal that goes up and over slid in without to much difficult. probably because the po never changes it. The seal around the three sections was way more difficult. I had to work at that a lot. having a wide blade putty knife like they use for wallpaper helped get the edges in. I started with the bottom edge and did a blade width and then did the top about the same distance ans tried sliding the seal through. Sometimes it slid along and everywhere it hung up I'd switch to the wide putty knife. Did that all the way around and finished with a piece of 1x4 and a little rap with a hammer.
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