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So I've sorted the whole process out...
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:36 pm    Post subject: So I've sorted the whole process out... Reply with quote

I've read through everything I can find, but I still want to get some further insight on this, the world of auto body paint is confusing to me.

all of this is what I'm planning on using to paint my car.

so I've decided on this gun kit...

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=94572

BUT...

I was on the fence about this one instead because it has a regulator..

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=90977

I think I've decided on this compressor... (I know it's not the best, but better than my tired 80's compressor)...

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=90234


thats it for the tools....

and for the paint..

heres what I was planning on for the primer..

http://www.tcpglobal.com/restorationshop/itemdetail.aspx?itemno=KUS+KL611-GL (it was recomended for enamel paints)

and this enamel paint kit...
http://www.tcpglobal.com/restorationshop/itemdetail.aspx?itemno=RSP+AE1403-KIT-F

for a respirator I think this might work out..

theres a descrpition for all of this if you go to the menu on the website for those respirators..

http://www.tcpglobal.com/spraygundepot/itemdetail.aspx?itemno=BNK+40-128


OOOOK, so don't laugh if any of this sounds dumb, but I want to see if this looks ok to some that have more experience than me.
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Campy
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avoid getting a cheap made-in-China air compressor and paint gun.
The air compressor is not only cheap, it is too small. I restore old buses and I got by, for years, with a Campbell Hausfeld air compressor, which had a 26 gallon tank, belt drive, oil bath, and a cast iron pump. Avoid any air compressors that are "oil-less" and not belt drive.
Recently, I picked up a real nice, used Devilbliss dual stage air compressor for $400. It has an upright 80 gallon tank, and I got a magnetic starter and electrical box thrown in with it. I will never have to wait to have the tank fill up with air when using air tools, again.
I have three Binks suction paint guns that I picked up, years ago, for $5.00 to $10.00 each. I cleaned them up and rebuilt them, and they work great.
When I rented a paint booth so I could paint my bus, to be legal, the owner made me get an HVLP paint gun. I bought a slightly used Devilbliss paint gun at a paint store for $150 (retail was $360 new) but it never atomized the paint as well as my Binks gun.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Base Coat / Clear Coat is a wonderful system and looks spectacular but it doesn't look like the original VW finish at all. You can get the color ok but the clear coat gives a "plastic" looking depth and shine to it.
This is totally a matter personal taste. If you are doing a restoration, BC/CC isn't going to give you the finish you need.
The single stage paints will give you that factory paint job look.

Dave
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, that air compressor is oiled.

but, with the paint, I'm having a hard time finding single stage pn the net. can someone help me withn that?

and those guns I was looking at are low velocity/pressure needed ones, so they wouldn't be to much strain on the compressor...and whats wrong with waiting for it to catch up?

help...

!!!!!


i found some BC/CC kits on the same site

http://www.tcpglobal.com/restorationshop/itemdetail.aspx?itemno=RSP+UB1403-KIT-F

heres acrylic urethane one stage? its says so but it still uses hardener and stuff..
http://www.tcpglobal.com/restorationshop/itemdetail.aspx?itemno=RSP+AU1403-KIT-F

for the color I want to use heres what they have to offer for types of paint..

http://www.tcpglobal.com/restorationshop/itemdetail.aspx?itemno=RSP+AU1403-KIT-F

ON THE MAin page of the website they have a list in the center, it has single stage and what not...I'm confused here on what to do...

the color I want is called "Boss Yellow"..maybe someone could look through here and reply with a link that would work well,,

http://www.tcpglobal.com/restorationshop/
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Automobile paint is readily available throughout the nation at local stores.

I don't know if you are rural of city like but look in the Yellow pages under Automotive Body Shop supplies.

Virtually all NAPA auto part stores deal in auto paint also.

Go talk to these local suppliers, they will have experience and most often will help you out more than you could ever imagine. It is also better to get your paint locally, you may pay a few more dollars for it but having a resource to trouble shoot, make suggetions and just generally help you out is worth the few bucks.

Dave
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I painted my 1963 bus, I used dove blue acrylic-urethane paint because I didn't want to fool with a clear coat and I wanted the paint to look more like the factory paint (no high gloss). Because the paint is not just a plain enamel, yes, it does have to have a hardener (and reducer).
You really need a bigger air compressor so you won't have to keep stopping to wait for the air pressure to build back up. Also, without refrigerated air or at least a damn good filter, some water will get in the paint and some can fly out of the end of the coupler near the paint gun and get on your wet paint. I wrapped a rag around my coupler to catch any water. They have disposible plastic filters that are put on the air inlet of a paint gun but they are just for a last little bit of filtering and are not not meant to be the sole filter.
If you are going to be painting in an area or state where you are not required to use an HVLP paint gun, think about getting a good suction type paint gun because it will probably atomize the paint better than a cheaper HVLP paint gun. HVLP (high volume low pressure) paint guns were designed to have less air coming out of the cap (10 psi) so there is less overspray, hence, less pollution, when laws in some states were passed to crack down on the air pollution. My Binks suction type paint gun atomizes the paint much better than my expensive Devilbliss HVLP paint gun.
If you are going to be painting things in or around your garage, you can't have any source of ignition, such as an air compressor or fan, near the VOC because of the risk of an explosion. I put a long electrical cord on my air compressor and had it outside of my garage. Also, if people live nearby, you could get complaints or even get in trouble because the VOC will go out into the neighborhood.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buy this respirator: http://www.tcpglobal.com/autobodydepot/ItemDetail.aspx?ItemNo=MMM%207192

consider Harbor Freight's turbine paint system stickied above (I have no experience, but it sounds like people are satisfied with it and it is dirt cheap)

TCP paint and primer should work good for a budget first time paint job - I sprayed some of their Acrylic Eurathane and thought it sprayed nicely -

Be aware that eurathane hardeners have very short shelf life (14 days after opening the container). Depending on how you are spraying, you may be better of buying a couple small sealed containers of hardener rather than 1 larger container

Make sure you spray a solid color and not a metallic or pearl - especially if spraying singel stage paint
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

okay, so this is another stupid question.

But what EXACTLY are VOC's?

are they those chemicals that once you breathe in and you can never get out of your system? and are extremely volatile?.....

CAMPY, yeah, unfortunately I know for sure that my state (washington) requires HVLP guns, I live less than 20 miles direct from portland oregon (THE greenest city in the nation), so HVLP for me.

and I just realized, my furnace is in my garage as well, so I think that means no painting in my garage.... YES? no?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
Courtesy of the EPA

Organic Gases (Volatile Organic Compounds - VOCs)

Volatile organic compounds (VOCs) are emitted as gases from certain solids or liquids. VOCs include a variety of chemicals, some of which may have short- and long-term adverse health effects. Concentrations of many VOCs are consistently higher indoors (up to ten times higher) than outdoors. VOCs are emitted by a wide array of products numbering in the thousands. Examples include: paints and lacquers, paint strippers, cleaning supplies, pesticides, building materials and furnishings, office equipment such as copiers and printers, correction fluids and carbonless copy paper, graphics and craft materials including glues and adhesives, permanent markers, and photographic solutions.

Organic chemicals are widely used as ingredients in household products. Paints, varnishes, and wax all contain organic solvents, as do many cleaning, disinfecting, cosmetic, degreasing, and hobby products. Fuels are made up of organic chemicals. All of these products can release organic compounds while you are using them, and, to some degree, when they are stored.

EPA's Total Exposure Assessment Methodology (TEAM) studies found levels of about a dozen common organic pollutants to be 2 to 5 times higher inside homes than outside, regardless of whether the homes were located in rural or highly industrial areas. Additional TEAM studies indicate that while people are using products containing organic chemicals, they can expose themselves and others to very high pollutant levels, and elevated concentrations can persist in the air long after the activity is completed.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, I probably could have handled that with a shot to Google.

since my furnace is a constant ignition source, do you thing a simple tarping off of the perimeter of the furnace area could make it safe?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely NOT !

Plan on a warm day and turn the thing off, even shut off the gas valve to be sure.

NO heaters, no electric fans (unless they are spark free industrial type) even your air compressor motor must be away from the fumes. They are not kidding when they warn you about these things.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alright, well shit, unless I can rent a painting booth looks like I'm not painting it in the garage and more. A day that warm won't be around for a while and I need this bug outta my garage.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HVLP paint guns are required where I live at businesses such as auto body repair shops, which is why I had to use one when I rented a paint booth. I've used my Binks suction paint gun, elsewhere, because it works better. You can use a suction-type paint gun if you are just going to do the painting on your property.
I've done some painting in my garage; I shut off the gas to the water heater and, as I noted earlier, I moved my air compressor out of the garage.
I know of some people who have painted car bodies outside, when there was no breeze and insects and junk in the air.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, I've been looking briefly for a place to rent a booth....I can't fing one on my area!

any help on that?!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only found one business in Chico where I could rent a paint booth: $100 for the day, when available, and it included leaving my bus in it overnight. It had a side draft, a paint gun cleaner, and refrigerated dry air. It was well worth the expense.
Use your telephone and start calling auto body repair businesses.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Don't know what your town is like or what's in it or who you know.

Guys that work in body shops often work on the side for CASH. They shouldn't, but the fact is they do. No "do not compete" clauses in their contracts!

Make the connections, ask around, shouldn't be too hard to find one.
Find that auto paint store I told you about and ask them who would paint a car on the side, they know.

Don't go get all frustrated on us.

Dave
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not frustrated, just under a time budget.

aaggh...
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another important thing to check on is the legality of painting a car in your locality. It might not be allowed outside of a booth. Call your environmental health/ air quality mgmt district and ask. Breaking environmental laws can cost thou$and$ if you get bu$ted.

Here in Butte county you can paint two vehicles a year on your property, no booth needed.
BUT..... you must be the registered owner of them. That keeps the side job guys from painting other peoples cars in their driveways. If your neighbors complain to them then you must cease painting.

The folks I talked to were really nice and helpful.

Getting a booth sounds better all the time. Doesn't it?
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Washougal is podunk town. Nobody's gonna care about the smell from the paint, there's a huge paper mill nearby.

Get your paint and Industrial Finishes in Portland. Don't buy it online even if it's cheaper. Ask for "Omni" paint.

How about using craigslist? Find someone with a pole barn and rent that for a few days. Put up plastic to keep the spiders out of your paint.
As to the compressor and furnace, run a long extension cord and put the compressor in the house. Run the air line to the garage and that's one problem solved.

If the furnace has a standing pilot, shut it off. If it has electronic ignition, flip the breaker while you're painting and for an hour or so afterward. You can stand to have your house cold for a while.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yep, finding a booth sounds good to me.

Well, "major woody", I know what parts you're thinking of in washougal if you're familiar with it. But I live as far east you that can go while living within city limits....as in as far away from the paper mill as you can get, plus, the mill is in the next town over, in camas. AANdd, I live in a housing developement, so yeah, getting a pole barn or a booth rented sounds like the right thing for me. Thanks for the place in Portland, I'll go check that out.
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