'77 Westfalia refuses to start after 2 years sitting in garage

[HibsMax]

Hi Group.

I'm a part-time VW bus owner (meaning my wife and I own a bus, but neither of us knows that much about maintaining one). I'll tell you what I know and you can ignore me, tell me to RTFM, or ridicule me. I honestly feel like I've done everything within my capabilities and figured I would try here before having her (Raputa, in case you're interested) towed to my local shop for further diagnostics.

We bought her in 2014 and had a rebuild 2.0l scat engine installed in 2015.

1977 Westfalia with rebuilt 2 liter scat
Dual Kadron 44 carbs
Mr. Gasket 42S electric fuel pump
Pertonix 009 flamethrower distributor

That's all the interesting stuff I have from the build invoice, but I can try to get more info if required.

Here is what I have done.
1. Charged the battery. Plenty of juice. The engine turns over very strongly, it just won't fire.
2. Checked the plugs. The gaps seemed a little wide so I adjusted them to 0.6mm. I did the best I could to check the spark, but with one person it's tricky. I basically took a video of the engine compartment with one spark plug out and turned it over. I saw a spark. I did not test all plugs, just one. The HT leads look fine, but one spark plug has a cracked cover so that should be replaced.
3. Fuel pump - with the ignition on, the pump delivers gas to both carbs. I tested this by disconnecting the fuel hose from the side of the carb and dumped the gas into a bucket.
4. Carb - if I put a little gas in each carb and turn it over, the engine fires for like a second then sputters out only to not start again.
5. Gas - there is new gas in the tank. There was some old gas in the tank but I can't tell how much since the gauge never works. I did run the fuel pump and dumped about 1/2 gallon gas into a bucket.

It seems to me like there is gas getting to the carb, but the carb is not delivering a fuel/air mixture to the cylinder hence it doesn't fire. I think the test I ran in #4 above proves everything else is working e.g., if there was no spark, the engine wouldn't fire at all.

Stripping the carbs and cleaning them (a) is beyond me, and (b) seems like it should be unnnecessary given the age of the build. Even though the build was completed in 2015, we rarely drive her - once a year camping trips, but latetly we reverted back to the tent meaning Raputa has sat in my garage for 2 years doing nothing. I would guess that there is less than 1000 miles on the new/rebuilt engine.

Should I just concede and take my bus to the shop or is there something obvious that a novice should/could attempt?

Thanks so much and I apologize if this question has been asked a million times before, but I haven't seen this specific issue discussed (doesn't mean it hasn't been, it just means my Google skills didn't find it).

Cheers, Max

edit: the last time I ran her was a couple of years ago which is when I noticed a leak coming from the transmission; that's one reason why she has sat idle for so long. I figured it was finally time to get her fixed except now she won't start. There weren't any issues starting her before I garaged her.

[Abscate]

You’ve done well on the troubleshooting tree. The gas in the carb trick tells you spark is ok, but sitting carbs will get plugged with old gas and crap.

They need to be taken off and cleaned out.
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[HibsMax]

Thanks!

Now I need to decide if that's something I want to try myself. I used to maintain my old Mini when I lived back in the UK so I am not totally new to this, but it's been about 3 decades. I'm just reluctant because I know how finicky carbs can be to set up. I'm not sure if I can take them off, strip them down, clean them, and put them back together and they should just work or if I will need to tune them - the tuning part is what scares me off.

I will either tackle the carb cleaning myself, or just have the shop deal with it when I take her to get the transmission leak looked at.

Cheers, Max

[cmonSTART]

Yes, excellent troubleshooting so far. It sounds like your carbs need a cleaning and/or rebuild - even though there isn't much age on them letting them sit for 2 years with gas in them can do quite a lot of damage.

All signs seem to point to them.

Carbs really aren't THAT hard to do once you're into them. You need to be neat and orderly, and have a good source of compressed air to help blow things out - they really look scarier than they are.

Or take them to a shop - whatever works for you.
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'78 Bus 2.0FI
de K1IGS

[HibsMax]

Thanks for your reply.

I do have an air compressor. I guess at this stage, what's the worst I can do? Rhetorical question, I've read some stories about errant screws ending up inside the head.

You've given me something to think about. Time to hit YouTube and pretend I'm a mechanic.

Cheers, Max

[HibsMax]

She runs!

She's a little rough, but I got her started so I can at least get her to the shop for the transmission and also have them give her a tune-up.

Thanks to the folks here for giving me the courage to give it a go. And thanks to "disassembling kadron carbs" on YouTube for showing me how simple it is to strip it down for cleaning. I only went as far as removing the main jet which was clogged in both carbs. Once those were cleared, she started. I don't know if there is dirt in other places, but she runs rough. She didn't like the hill I tried to take her up for example.

Thanks again!

[cmonSTART]

Wow that was quick! Congratulations!

A full cleaning/rebuild will probably smooth things out completely, whether you do it or a shop.

Don't forget to show your ignition points some love just because..
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'78 Bus 2.0FI
de K1IGS

[Wildthings]

Get a small tin can like what tomato paste comes in and crimp one edge to make a narrow spout. Fill the can about a third of the way with gas and pour it down the bowl vent and fill the fuel bowl, repeat with the other carb. Watch to see if gobs of fuel begin pouring into the venturi, if so the bowl is full. If your engine will now run somewhat normally for a 30 seconds or so the problem is getting the fuel to the carbs.

Ethanol laced fuel will often leave a brittle resin like material in the jets that will not readily dissolve potentially blocking them totally. I have found I can remove the carb lid, pull the main jet, stick a toothpick into the jet and bust this crap out. Often this can be done with the carb installed so as not to throw your throttle linkage out.

If and when you get it running add Carb/Fuel Injection cleaner to the tank and hope. If the fuel in the tank has badly spoiled then it is probably best to pull the tank and have it professionally cleaned.

It is best to use only ethanol free fuel if there is a possibility that you are going to let a vehicle sit, it will age much better than ethanol laced fuel, plus the engine will hot restart easier during summer weather.

[HibsMax]

I didn't want to hang around. I figured "rip off the bandaid and if I f*** anything up, someone else can fix it for me". It was remarkably simple, but I didn't strip it down completely. I also have to get new gaskets for the carbs since, for testing, I used the old ones!!!

My understanding from the PO is the fuel tank was removed and sprayed with an anti-corrosive liner.....and that was maybe like 10 years ago (just guessing).

I should have said that when I took apart the second carb, the float bowl was full of gas whereas the first one only had a trickle. Also, the first carb I took off to clear the main jet, but the second one I left in place since I learned I didn't need to take the whole thing off.

In the future I don't plan on leaving the tank full of gas for years, and I will also make it a plan to start her at least monthly.

Thanks, folks. Your help and information is invaluable.

[Abscate]

If you can conquer SU carbs on a Mini, Solexs and Kadrons will be like kindergarten
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[vwwestyman]

Were it me, at this point now that it is running some, I would be inclined to just crawl under the bus and drain off whatever is in the tank (be prepared for up to 15 gallons if you have zero idea what is in there).

Then I'd give it a couple gallons fresh gas with a whole bottle of good carb cleaner and run it around for a bit. Then top off with fresh gas and more carb cleaner. You might get lucky and get it running better.

Then, if there is an option in your area, start filling it with non-ethanol gas from now on. (EG, here, premium fuel doesn't usually have ethanol. I've seen it as the "regular" grade at other stations as the one without ethanol.) Less of a big deal if you're traveling a bunch and will burn it through.
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Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

[HibsMax]

Thanks for your reply!

I have another question related to these carbs. Can they be installed backward? I have been watching a video on tuning the carbs and the video I saw has the throttle linkage on the frontside whereas on my setup the throttle linkage is on the backside. Does it matter?

The video I am referring to is on YT ("Kadron Solex H40/44EIS Tuning and Installation Clinic").

Cheers, Max

[raygreenwood]

[HibsMax]

I forgot to include a picture with my last post.

[/img]

[HibsMax]

Here is a shot of my hi-flo mod on my Kadron 44 carbs. This has been documented before, but my approach was a tiny bit different.

I'm Scottish (metric), but have lived in the US (imperial) so this post will include a smattering of both.

Each post is 4" of M5x08 all thread. 1.25" of that screws into the carb body leaving 2.75" inside the air cleaner. I misplaced my thread lock so used two nuts to set the position of the bracket. Those nuts are about 0.75" from the top of the thread. When it's all assembled, the bracket is about as close to the air cleaner cover as it can get. No air cleaner mods are required so the aesthetics remain the same. One thing I would say about this mod is that since I have replaced the bolts with nuts, I need to be a little bit more careful when removing the air cleaner since a nut is easier to drop than a bolt.[/img]

[alman72]

how many miles on the scat 2.0? how was the break in? unrelated to what your dealing with, just interested in your opinion of the motor.