What Causes Bus Fires?

[LardBug]

I watched The Bus movie again last night for about the thousandth time. I noticed something I never realized before. Probably because I finally got my own "Bus" about a week ago. It's an early Bay. Anyway, all the ones that start on fire in the movie are Bays. Have they ever figured out what is the cause of the engine fires?
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1967 Deluxe Sedan w/Factory Sunroof
1969 Deluxe Transporter w/Devon Campervan Conversion (LHD)

[Tcash]

Happy Thanksgiving, a little reading.
Fuel Line - Quality, Makers, Sizes
Bus fires... don't let it happen to you!

[Randy in Maine]

Usually from leaking fuel lines.

Second would be from the little brass nozzle on the carb coming loose. Better than the safety wire shown is a "threaded in" barb.

Third would be from butchered up wiring.

[dr.bones]

here goes,for one its little things like above, fuel lines,shorted or unrepaired wires,trying to resurrect a bus that's been sitting for a while and only putting gas and a battery in it,then trying to go down the road and hope you make it.and one other thing is making sure fuel lines and wires are away from exhaust and cylinder jugs.also not taking precautions such as a fire existiguisher.also where you put the fuel,your filler neck hose,leaks and starts fires near the battery and wires.i believe if you check these simple things you will be safe and your family and friends.hope all of you have happy thanksgiving and be safe.

[Desertbusman]

The big deal and what separates our buses from about eveyone else is the gas tank is up high. So any flaw or failure in the fuel system has a static head of pressure on it that keeps flowing. and a fire will keep burning as long as it keeps being fed.
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71 Superbug
71 Westy

[obnoxiousblue]

[WestyPop]

The threaded idea seems best, but probably easier for some folks than modifying carb & fuel pumps for threaded fittings, is just removal of the fittings, cleanup & re-insertion, using JB Weld to keep them secure. Haven't had any come loose yet (however, it's only been 30 years).
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Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
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J.R.
68 Westy
(+ others)

[nodrenim]

I'm with obnoxiousblue on this one, for sure. Times 10.

[Davydomes]

Well I am in the process of a total resto on a 69 Bay RHD. But I have just completed the same on a 61 BMW Isetta 300 (air cooled ). After connecting up the fuel hose on the Isetta about 18 months ago after 12 months and quite by chance we had to remove it and found that it had started to turn to treacle (molassis? - Happy Thanks Giving BTW - wish we did it here in UK ). We found out on Earlybay.com that the unleaded gas ( ) contains a percentage of biofuel which reacts with types of rubber. We haven't replaced it yet but will soon - this means the caution should be taken on the fuel hose material and it should be graded for use with Unleaded Gas.

This is probably common knowledge but sometimes "you don't know, what you don't know" - I certainly didn't

[Wildthings]

For years when I have bought used rigs I have removed any added inline fuel filters and rubber hose that PO have added after the fuel pump and before the carb(s), just too dangerous to have this added weak point in the system. Unfortunately with a VW engine getting rid of all the rubber fuel line after the fuel pump is anything but easy to do, so most of us live with it and the accompanying fire hazard. Add things like the high fuel tank location and the pressed in fittings on the carb and you have a very bad fire hazard. All combined with alcohol laced fuel and these rigs being decades old and the problem is that much worse.

[obnoxiousblue]

You know, I'm sure this has been covered but reading this I'm curious what it would take to install an electric fuel shut off below the tank. Something that gets power at ignition switch on, but otherwise is closed to prevent gravity feeding the fuel in the event of a fire.
Has anyone seen or done one silimar?
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Mike
1964 Beetle
2001 Eurovan Camper

[tootype2crazy]

Ethanol in modern fuel destroys traditional rubber in short order. Take off a year old fuel line and look inside and you can see what it does to the rubber. Places like belmetric.com sell the proper sized metric fuel line that is resistant to e85 fuel.

Also buses have the tank right in front of the engine, higher than the engine. This means that a small crack is a non-stop waterfall because the tank is gravity feeding the fire, yikes. A shut off valve or top mounted fuel pump that sucks the fuel out, as well as the alcohol resistant fuel hose would make the bus dramatically less prone to burning.
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air-cooled or nothing for me
1978 Sunroof Deluxe Bus (daily driver)
1978 Transporter (mom's, making into a camper)
1970 Single Cab 2.1 turbo/EFI 6 Rib, 78 front beam, vanagon backing plates on rear (project)
2001 GTI VR6 (wife's)

[williamM]

Specifically -as wild points out- You have 2 open sparkers for your first line of ignition. These components are working good and still have an ignition possibility.

First is the fuel filter bumping against the coil right over the distributor. The distributor has ozone vents and no seal between the cap and body. The fuel filter is glued together and prone to wear. Put all this together and poof

Second- is the generator. It is directly opposite the pressed in fuel inlet to the carb so- if /when- that pressed fitting comes loose- it sprays the generators arching brushes with fuel under pressure--Again poof

Next are malfunctions- Leaking #3 & 4 spark plug leads are right under the rapidly deteriorating old fuel lines, and near the front tin which has lost it's grommet years ago and can eat thru a steel line If that improvement has been done.

Any electrical problem can rapidly cut thru a rubber line.

The good news is you only have to fix this stuff and drive with some confidence -- don't forget the 2 fire extinguishers as you will want to spray foam (or whatever) in both vents at the same time.
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some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.

opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.

Don't step in any!

[Tom Powell]

Fires need fuel.
Fires need an ignition source.
Fires need an oxygen supply.

Eliminate as many as possible.
Both for protection and extinguishing.

Aloha
tp

[LardBug]

For sale 1969 Devon Campervan. Nah, just kidding but holy crap I'm surprised there are any buses left! Thanks for the insight folks. I definitely know what I need to do now.
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1967 Deluxe Sedan w/Factory Sunroof
1969 Deluxe Transporter w/Devon Campervan Conversion (LHD)

[Desertbusman]

[williamM]

My first try at that mounted up on the fire wall above the transmission.[img]

[/img]the firt thing is the "burn me down filter" mounted where it rubs on nothing. Next is the electro shut off. then the fuel pump ( If your working on a T-4- be sure and leave the pump rod in . Last is the pressure regulator. Set at 3 psi for duals.
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some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.

opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.

Don't step in any!

[LardBug]

Nice set up William. I think I'll follow your lead.
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1967 Deluxe Sedan w/Factory Sunroof
1969 Deluxe Transporter w/Devon Campervan Conversion (LHD)

[BUSBOSS]

.[img]

[/img]

I'd get rid of the plastic filter, rubbing or not.
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All the redemption I can offer, girl, is beneath this dirty hood
1976 Westfalia
1970 Karmann Ghia Convertible (sold - but not forgotten)

[udidwht]