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removing my windshield (and rust repairs)--now with pictures
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zuhandenheit
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:58 am    Post subject: removing my windshield (and rust repairs)--now with pictures Reply with quote

Later today I'll be pulling out my old windshield.

Here's why: (I'd appreciate comments about any of this, but I would especially like a bit of advice about actually removing the windshield, so skip to the end of my post if you don't care to read the story.)

About six months ago, I paid a local shop to fix some rust, including holes under the windshield. They spot-welded in new pieces of metal, covered that in bondo and primer. I added some touch up paint.

I hoped that they did an ok job, because I saw some questionable work elsewhere. But the windshield wasn't quite seated properly (actually, it was hardly pushed in at all when they first tried to give it back to me), and now it looks like they missed some spots with their primer, because little rust spots are developing again (in new areas).

Oh, and during heavy rain, water gets all the way through, onto my floor.

I didn't want to take the van back to the same shop because, really, at this point i'd like to consider this a lesson learned and try to fix it myself.

But I'm hesitant to attempt an R&R of my windshield, because I know that i might break it. So, I realized that with the existing small crack in the center of the windshield, I might be able to get a new one for free (from my insurance, Florida law), and kill two birds . . .

It turns out that I can, and my insurance company even agreed to pay for an OEM windshield.

The glass company will come to my house tomorrow morning to install the new windshield.

And so today, I need to remove my old one and treat the rust.

I understand that the removal of the glass can be accomplished either by simply pushing out along the edges, or by using a flat head screwdriver or similar implement along the inner edge of the seal.

I'd rather not break the old windshield if I can avoid it, just because ... I mean, what if they show up with the wrong glass tomorrow or something?

Does anyone have any tips?


For the rust, I just really hope not to find any surprises. As long as it's just a little bit of stuff of the surface of metal, which is all that it appears to be, I'll wire-wheel it off, maybe add some por-15, and then a coat of primer.


Last edited by zuhandenheit on Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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jfarsang
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take an exacto knife and cut the seal. The windshield will just pop out after that with little resistance.

What about the water gushing in ? Are you going to fix that or just the small rust spots ?
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foodeater
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fact there there is water coming in makes me think that your going to need to do much more than just "treat" the rust, you've got holes somewhere under that seal that will need to be repaired.
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zuhandenheit
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the responses. As far as I can tell, the water comes in because the windshield is not seated properly. Especially in one corner, there is a significant gap between the seal and the metal. I'm not very pleased with the shop.

It's not so much a 'gush' as it is a drip. But I really hope that I don't find any holes. I really, really hope not!
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hiram6
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have a new seal? Are you assuming the glass guys are going to bring one? My bet is they will want to re-use your old one. I would not want to re-use a seal that has been ill-fitting all this time. If the bodyshop didn't get it in right, that means the seal is likely being squeezed somewhere, which may distort it. Sounds like a recipe for a leak to me.

Also, realize that your leak may NOT be a result of your metal work, it could be the because the seal isn't fitted correctly. I had a similar issue when I purchased my van. The van had been painted before I bought it, including removing the windshield. Whe they re-assembled, they (a) re-used the old seal, and (b) didn't quite get it back in perfectly. As a result I had a dribble-leak in both lower corners of the windshield. It was leaking BETWEEN the glass and the seal, not between the seal and the metal.

Easy way to tell is to spray the offending area with a hose, and see where the water is coming in. If it's between the seal and the glass, you will see a small little spot of water on the inside top of the seal. If it's between the seal and the metal, the top of the seal will be dry, but you'll have a dribble down the inside of the metal behind your dash.
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madspaniard
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there is a chance the new windshield won't properly seal against the van if the shop did a poor welding/bondo job. That could be the reason the windshield you have on now allows water to come in so a new windshield might not fix the problem. Take the windshield out an check the metal surface where it goes for imperfections and raised/uneven areas.

Last edited by madspaniard on Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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madspaniard
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK hiram6 beat me on the clock
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GWTWTLW
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you sure the water is coming in through the windshield? I have a little rust under mine as well and when it rains, I get puddles on my floor. I was originally thinking windshield but I believe it is actually coming in through the doors where the rain pours off the gutters in front. It comes in under the gutter and into the vents. I have puddles in both the vents. Something to look at at least...
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syncrosimon
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have also seen leaks through the washer jets being loose, and the wiper spindles.

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zuhandenheit
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's what I found:

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OOPS:

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zuhandenheit
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, so after attacking the rust with a wire wheel, I did find one small hole (maybe 2X4 mm) Could I just use por15 + filler?
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16CVs
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:00 pm    Post subject: vanagon and rust Reply with quote

I am going to be the un popular one here. rust will not go away with ANY chemical. It needs to be cut out and replaced.
Grinding it and priming it is a waste of time. While products like POR 15 and such are good at keeping rust at bay. it just sends it back the other way.
If you are going to attempt to fix such a problem,I suggest getting the product you are going to use and read the direction Carefully before doing the work. Most of these wonder chemicals require time to out gas before top coating .And almost all of them require a top coat as they are neither UV tolerant and are porous .
When replacing your glass, In my opinion the only seal worth using is a dealer seal (from Vw) not "made in Germany" this is way more important than an OE glass. Make sure that the installer seals the glass between the rubber and the glass especially at the bottom and half way up the sides. Before installing the seal, the glass should be prepped with the same Glass primer they would use for a glue in installation,so that the adhesive has something to bite to.
So write off what I say or bypass some steps as unnecessary and you will be visiting this again sooner than you wish.
I have been in the glass trade for 20 plus years,and have lived through the experience of having a rusty Pinchweld on a car.It did not go away ,the rust that is. I sold the car and now it is someone else' worry.
Feel free to contact me in regards to any of this. I don't think I am right I know I am.

Stacy
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zuhandenheit
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the comments Stacy. Unfortunately, I can only do my best to handle this with the resources available to me.

If I had the cash and time, I might buy a welder and learn how to use it.

I wish I'd done that instead of paying someone else to do a half-assed job.

Here's what's under the filler and rust:

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Doesn't look all that great to me.

I'm thinking about applying fiberglass and por15 over the corners, a coat of por along the entire thing, and then filler and primer.

Stacy: POR is supposed to be top-coated *before* it's completely dry so the paint will adhere properly. In this instance, at least, it isn't necessary to wait.
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zuhandenheit
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way, I really need to have this cleaned up by tomorrow morning, so any advice tonight will be greatly appreciated!

thanks
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hiram6
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news here, but you need to reschedule that appointment. At the least you need to completely grind out all rust, fill the holes (welding would be best, body filler as last resort) grind smooth, sand, primer, paint. Then you could do a new seal and glass.

No way you get all of this done tonight. Sad Sad

Otherwise, you'll be re-doing this in 6 months to a year.

I know, that sucks doesn't it. Evil or Very Mad

But, as my Dad always says, "it is what it is".
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the caveman
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hiram6 wrote:
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news here, but you need to reschedule that appointment. At the least you need to completely grind out all rust, fill the holes (welding would be best, body filler as last resort) grind smooth, sand, primer, paint. Then you could do a new seal and glass.

No way you get all of this done tonight. :( :(

Otherwise, you'll be re-doing this in 6 months to a year.

I know, that sucks doesn't it. :evil:

But, as my Dad always says, "it is what it is".

Ditto. You will just be twice as pissed if you don't do it right this time because it may just make it worse if not done 100 %.
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zuhandenheit
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, it seems like I'll probably need to reschedule. I'll work on it for as long as I can tonight, anyway.

Look at this mess:

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I actually paid money for that!

I'm thinking about printing these pictures and taking them to the owner of the shop . . .

Anyway, what do you guys think about por15 and fiberglass (soaked in por) patches and then filler? At least I can do that myself, and I figure it would be a lot better than just filling this up with bondo (again).

thanks
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vanagon john
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so sorry man

it looks better in the first pic
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ftp2leta
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mmm.... first thing first.
It's not that bad. Far from it, most van have rust there but a lot don't even know it.

Money VS labour. Of course, the right way is doing that is:

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But forget that, It's a painful job, it's time consuming and you may need a welding machine.

So, you have time and it look like you can do it yourself, of course you can!!!

So, pour Zinc over there, let it dry 1 big day.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


After, put some Micro fiber. It's resin with micro Fiberglas in it. Don't put to much, micro fiber look like that:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Putty (GOOD BRAND!!!, use Evercoat with hardener):
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Sand everything smoothly, test fit window with old seal.

Conclusion:
You are here for advice mostly because you don't have money to have it done by pro's. You know what, good for you. That whole project won't cost you much, you will learn a lot and men!! if it's back in a few years... do it again.

Of course, new metal is the way to go, but over there, it's hard to put new metal, unless you have a donor van. It's one of the worse place to do nice body work.

Body work = labour of love and patience! Don't rush it.

Ben
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16CVs
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:50 pm    Post subject: Rust an vanagons Reply with quote

Well as I said " read the directions. Isn't there some time before top coating?
Hope all goes well.

Stacy
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