doing your own headwork.?

[ShadetreeVEE]

so, i have an extra set of used 043 (35x32) heads. valve guides are shot. and appear to have no cracks. i have a buddy whos doing a automotive machine shop class at our local college and has all the tools necessary to do the work ( replace guides, seats, 3 angle valve job, p&p, etc). and hes wanting to learn how to do the work.. so all i have to do is pay the cost of materials.

so i have a few questions to all the head gurus, and anyone who has done their own headwork as far as the level of difficulty goes and actual procedure go. i understand those who are doing it, have been doing it for years, but they all had to start somewhere right?

how do you remove, and install new valve seats? how to tell what the correct seat height is, and if its straight or not?

how to you cut for larger seats and make sure they are centered with the guide?

and ive read a thread in the past on installing new valve guides, but i cant remember for the life of me where i saw it at. but i was wondering how worn the bore needs to be before you used oversized guides?

if anyone has written up a complete walkthrough of how to do your own headwork, just point me in that direction. yes i did use the search function, and didnt come up with much .

[Eaallred]

There are specialized tools for replacing valve guides and seats.

Unless you plan on doing multiple sets, I would just have a shop do that part.
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Eric Allred

You have to remember something: Everybody pities the weak; Jealousy you have to earn.

[DarthWeber]

http://www.cal-look.com/tech_head_porting.shtml

[Marv [UK]]

[mackteck]

check this thread out...
http://www.cal-look.com/forum/index.php?topic=21630.0

[Scott Novak]

I'm certainly not a professional head porter by any means. But I think that most of them would agree that you don't want to do any extreme porting work without a flow bench and instruments to measure port velocity.

I think that there is certainly some clean up porting, intake manifold match porting work, and combustion chamber polishing that can be done by an amateur that will yield improvements without screwing anything up.

Scott Novak

[akokarski]

you don't just pound out the guides...

http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/2008/11/valve-job-replacing-guides.html

Anton

[BelialConsummation]

[bongon247]

your buddy's gonna need a pile of junk heads, a flow bench as has been stated above numerous times, and lotsa practice...

get him a copy of tom fisher's how to hot rod vw engines too...

i'm jealous i'd love to learn how to do that....

edit

wrong thread, n/m me

[ShadetreeVEE]

thanks for the replies.
the bob hoover article is the one that i have read before, good information to know. replacing the guides seems fairly straight forward. As far as i know the class that my friend is in offers allot of the specialized tools that are needed for the job. we discussed having him cut them for 40x35.5 valves and cleaning up the area where the valve meets the head. and he said it wouldnt be a problem. however i think ill stick with the stock sizes as the heads already have a mild p&p and would save time and headaches by avoiding cutting for larger seats.

i watched a couple of the videos that A.J. sims put up (thanks for the link) he mentioned the old school method of welding a valve to the seat and beating it out. ive also heard of welding a solid bead around the inside of the seat causing it to shrink and thus making it almost drop out. im sure its been done many times before but im wondering if doing that would cause the need to used oversized seats to get the correct crush.

which leads me to a few more questions.
how do you tell if the seats need to be replaced?
and what would the correct crush be for a stock set of seats? similar to what A.J. mentioned in his videos?

i know some of you would and have said leave it to the pro's. however personally i enjoy learning how to do the work, and knowing how its done. I do some work at a machine shop myself, and the only reason i wouldnt attempt this myself is that i know we dont have any of the specialized tools needed. so even if the heads get messed up, itll still be worth a try to me. im just trying to gather as much info on HOW to do it so i can stop guessing and hopefully have the heads turn out decent enough to run.

[nsracing]

Stop it you'all! You are already discouraging the man.

If the machine shop school is geared to do V8 stuff, then your friend will not be able to completely rebuild your VW heads.

He can cetainly do the guides and seats so on. But when it comes to flycutting the surfaces, you will need a whole different flycutting head. I know the V8 shops will never buy one as it costs a thousand $ or more...certainly not for doing $40 flycuts on VW heads.

You will be better off sending it to someone already tooled in VW head work.

A lot of us have no flow benches and yet still do port work. Some of us have learned what ports and chambers look like that will go 6.90 sec/ 1/8 mile or 6.0 sec flat / 1/8 mile. A lot of the shops that do well have started without a flowbench. So I would not knock anyone who cannot produce a flowbench if they did head work at all.

Some can do this stuff out of pure TALENT!

mY 2 cents.

[jeff denham]

NSRACING is very acurate on his quote. a flow bench is the least of your worrys. two things to remember dont get happy with the carbide.2 follow the original contures in the ports NON WELDED not to under cut the seats and leave the original shape but still pulling the material. this way you wont get into trobel.. until you learn more. its easy to pull material. but its harder to put it back . rember dont get GREEDY at least for now. think conservitive . JD.
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www.dprmachine.com

[ShadetreeVEE]

haha im not that easily discouraged . i really appreciate the tips guys. im not really that concerned with flow numbers or using a flow bench at that, of course id like to get as much out of them as i can but im more into getting the basics down first. after that i can go as wild as id like . the guy i work with is really knowledgeable about maintaining port velocity and working the chamber size a tiny bit to get it to flow right. but i totally agree with you jeff, conservative is good at least for now. if anything the heads are going on a peppy 1600 or a 1776 (if i can work out doing the 40x35.5's) , so no huge HP numbers are expected. just looking to learn how to build a good set of heads.
just a quick thought though. after pressing the seats in, guides installed, etc. is there a certain installed valve stem height that is supposed to be achieved? if so whats the ball park range or specific number??

[Hophead]

How did it go for you?
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70' Beetle Pan off Resto
2110cc
82 X 90.5
P&P 043 40x35.5
9.6-1 comp
FK-8
48 IDA

[Rome]

Although I am an amateur, home VW hobbyist like many here, one important hint I've missed so far is, that you should not bother to try to install larger seats for the intakes (i.e. 40mm) if you nothing else to the head. Instead, you can gain flow by keeping the 35mm intake, but performing "conservative" porting and a good 3-angle valve job. I have done such home porting (about a dozen sets of stock-valve heads), I've sent the 3-angle VJ to a competent engine machine shop close by.

If you merely intend to see what is involved to install a 40mm intake seat, but not to actually run the head on an engine, that is something else. But for such an exercise, you should consider using a head that IS cracked between the valves and/or spark plug, and leave the good ones you have for an engine you really intend to run since they seem to be a solid base.

[Arnolds64]

When it comes to seats and Guides I would imagine it would be the same as any aluminum head. You may ask and instructor there or pay him to do that part. I have done some pretty extensive work on mine. I took out enough combustion Chamber metal to get them from like 50CC to 60CC. I also straightened the ports and enlarged them some as well. I can tell you this 2017 stroker runs very strong. In a sedan with 225x 60's I can roll on the throttle and turn the tires in first. It revs to 6000 very quickly. So do not think you can not do the P&P. I did it how the Cal-look article showed. But I have 5.5 rods so I had to take allot out of the Chambers. You will not have to.
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64 Bug, White, 2017, Dual Weber 44's, Engle 130/Engle lifters, Home P&P'd 40X35 heads, CB 4340 nitrided crank, Eagle knock off H Beam 5.5" rods, Lowering Beam, Rancho Trans, Traction Bar. 225X60's rear, 145's front on Porsche Chrome Nipple Wheels.