1972 Deluxe 9 Passenger Projekt Uber Geizig

[mikewire]

Here's a nice new thread for my Projekt Uber Geizig. I posted it up on my local forum, but thought it would be appropriate for TS and I would really appreciate any input, because The Samba has great members and every post I have read here has been a great resource.

I did a lot of searching around because I sure someone has done this, but couldn't really find answers specific to my questions (esp for a 1972) so I need some help.

Here's what I have - I am picking up a 1972 Deluxe without an engine this weekend, and I found a source for a motor locally. It's a 2L from a 1978 bus (used for parts, no title) and apparently the FI system is gone or is toast.

What I want to do is pick up the engine and install it in the 1972, so here are my questions:

1. What hardware/mounts etc would it take to fit a 2L in the 1972?
   
   
2. Would you guys recommend trying to get the FI running, or just go with a carb setup (since that's what was originally in the 1972)?
   
   
3. Will I need to change anything with the tranny to mate up to the 2L?
   
   
4. Are engine tins and HE's from the 1978 compatible with the 1972 engine bay?
   

And, yes I will change the fuel lines ASAP before doing anything.

I appreciate any and all input, and just an FYI, I will document (with pics) what I do in this thread for future reference for others, so please post your helpful advice.

Here's a pic of the bus for clicks:

_________________
-Mike

@countdowngarage
@bigskyeuro

1972 VW Kombi 9 Passenger Deluxe w/ 2.0L F.I. VWAC swap
1965 VW Beetle Deluxe Bahama Blue

[Bleyseng]

1. nothing special as it will fit.
2. Get the gas tank from the 78 and the fuel pump stuff so the FI can work as finding a good solex set up isn't easy. Get ALL the wiring bits and pieces plus the air cleaner mount from the 78,
3. Can you swap in the tranny from the 78? That would help
4. the tins will fit right in no problem.
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70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles

[mikewire]

Ah! Thank you - that confirms what I have read in other threads with slightly different years. I'll make sure to pull the tank and as much fuel stuff as I can, including wiring, relays etc!!

The tranny was used in another project, so it's not there. As I understand it, the bell housing and flywheel on a 78 are bigger (228) than what would be on the 72, so I would need to find a 78 bell housing and a flywheel/clutch kit to adapt the existing 72 tranny to the 78 motor...does that sound correct?

Nice info about the tins - that is info I find hard to figure out between years.

Anything else I should grab off this parts bus for the engine swap?

I'll may be able to pull other parts for anyone on here if you need it, just let me know.
_________________
-Mike

@countdowngarage
@bigskyeuro

1972 VW Kombi 9 Passenger Deluxe w/ 2.0L F.I. VWAC swap
1965 VW Beetle Deluxe Bahama Blue

[mikewire]

(Mods, can you please move this to the Reader's Rides forum)

I'm going to pick this bus up on Saturday, so I will update with pics and info.

I went and looked at the parts bus, and the guy selling it had the engine disassembled He said it ran fine, but I still don't understand why had pulled the entire thing apart and put it in boxes. Not wanting to reassemble something I didn't take apart, I passed. So, I'm still looking for a motor.
_________________
-Mike

@countdowngarage
@bigskyeuro

1972 VW Kombi 9 Passenger Deluxe w/ 2.0L F.I. VWAC swap
1965 VW Beetle Deluxe Bahama Blue

[mikewire]

Picked it up this weekend with the help of a few friends:

More updates and pics to come :beer:
_________________
-Mike

@countdowngarage
@bigskyeuro

1972 VW Kombi 9 Passenger Deluxe w/ 2.0L F.I. VWAC swap
1965 VW Beetle Deluxe Bahama Blue

[nathansnathan]

cool, is a non-walkthrough. What is that thing with the vents underneath?

[RIOMX]

[mikewire]

Well, I think its for the AC that is/was installed, but I'm not really sure. I figured someone would chime in who has more info.
_________________
-Mike

@countdowngarage
@bigskyeuro

1972 VW Kombi 9 Passenger Deluxe w/ 2.0L F.I. VWAC swap
1965 VW Beetle Deluxe Bahama Blue

[mikewire]

Here's an update as of last night:

Not bad for being older than I am, and I would bet the shoes are OEM.

So then I decided to do a quick test see how the plastics would clean up.

Before

After

Just a sample of the dash

I actually did the whole cab dash, but it was too dark for pics when I finished it up.

I moved onto the rear passengers area and cleaned it up and removed the interior.

Remnants of the AC that was installed

Pulled back the nasty outdoor carpet and found that the OEM rubber mat was underneath

Pulled out the back seat

Got the rear hatch to open finally...the grease had turned to a solid mass

All those little bits are years of rotting insect corpses

All clean

After the rear was moderately cleaned up I moved to the front

Stripped all the rubber bits and the passengers seat, and then vac'd out the floor. Found a nice set of Craftsman needle nose pliers under the rubber floor

It was starting to storm and get dark, but I was able to get a couple more shots before I had to go inside, then go back to work to fix some issues with the power outage

A pile of parts

It's quick work and super easy to clean up. More to be done later.
_________________
-Mike

@countdowngarage
@bigskyeuro

1972 VW Kombi 9 Passenger Deluxe w/ 2.0L F.I. VWAC swap
1965 VW Beetle Deluxe Bahama Blue

[beetle98]

Looks like that bus is going to clean up quite nice. Great pics. Chad

[Mr'72Special]

Woah, dude! That's one nice find, and it's nice to see another N/W '72 out there. Hopefully you don't find any 'surprises' left by any potential rodent population.

Also, to answer your question on the flywheel: Yes, you will need to find a '72 flywheel. The flywheel for 1972 has a clutch contact surface diameter of 215mm, and the 1973 and '74 buses used that size as well, so you don't need to worry about that 'wheel being a rare part. Also DO NOT forget to order your clutch accordingly. Ask me how I know.

Also, the vented unit underneath is an A/C condenser. I have A/C as well (though it doesn't work; different engine w/out a compressor).


With regards to your motor, definately use the FI setup. Also, don't forget that '78 was the first year of hydraulic lifters, so keep that in mind if you have a valvetrain concern or are looking to adjust the valves.

Lastly, you'd do well to find a good used 091 tranny to put in front of that motor. The 002 Is quite under-geared for modern highway speeds IMHO. Again, ask me how I know; what I'd give to stop the engine noise

[mikewire]

Thanks for the replies - I'm hoping this comes together nicely. I got really lucky with this one - I think it had more problems with insects than rodents. It had been sitting for 23 years - the title was notarized in 1987 and was "parked" with the engine removed and hadn't moved since. It's mostly complete, just a little dirty and some of the vinyl panels aren't in the best of shape from the hot hot summers, and cold cold winters here in MT. It has a little bodywork and bondo on the rear passengers and hatch, which should be fixable.

So...still looking for a motor - the 2L I looked at had been totally disassembled, for reasons unknown to me (or anyone else for that matter) so I passed on it. Still looking for a 2L and now I know what FW and clutch to use - thank you! Oh, and can I ask how you know?

I have a couple of leads on some engines, so hopefully something will pan out. Interesting point about the tranny gear ratios

So another question: the OG paint is Kansas Beige, and it has been painted (not very well) with some sort of brown paint, and I would like to remove just the brown paint. I saw a couple of threads about guys using Easy Off oven cleaner to get rid of a layer of paint - any more info out there about it?
_________________
-Mike

@countdowngarage
@bigskyeuro

1972 VW Kombi 9 Passenger Deluxe w/ 2.0L F.I. VWAC swap
1965 VW Beetle Deluxe Bahama Blue

[Waves2day]

nice bus man... good find! What did you use on the the plastic to clean it up? anything special?

[cool karmann collected]

What was the fate of its 'friend' ?

[mikewire]

[mikewire]

Picked up a T4 motor this Saturday.

Motor and misc parts:

Where it's going:

A bunch of parts to bolt back on:

F.I. parts:

Tins and heat exchanger parts:

Overall the motor is in good visible shape - I'll do a compression test after I get it assembled again, because it was a running motor before the PO did a motor swap in his bus. The only part I can see that is missing is an intake runner with the injectors :confused: Not sure why only one set is missing, but it should be easy to find a replacement. That's it for now.
_________________
-Mike

@countdowngarage
@bigskyeuro

1972 VW Kombi 9 Passenger Deluxe w/ 2.0L F.I. VWAC swap
1965 VW Beetle Deluxe Bahama Blue

[mikewire]

The goal here is to swap this 2.0L FI into my '72 Deluxe and use the entire FI system. I know it's been done, but if anyone has any advice I am listening.

A couple of updates:

I picked up another set of intake runners/injectors and a passengers side mirror from fellow Samba members.

Also, a VW/Porsche 3 arm yoke adapter from VintageWorldTools and an engine stand from Harbor Freight and I will be ready to get this motor up in the stand, clean it up, get the tins back on and get it ready to swap in.

I posted in the classys, but I need a 210mm flywheel and clutch kit (from a 1700) so if anyone has anything please let me know.
_________________
-Mike

@countdowngarage
@bigskyeuro

1972 VW Kombi 9 Passenger Deluxe w/ 2.0L F.I. VWAC swap
1965 VW Beetle Deluxe Bahama Blue

[Mr'72Special]

From what I know German supply sell both the 215mm flywheel and clutch kit. If you come up short on a good used flywheel then at least you now know where to get one from. Don't forget to buy an endplay shim kit just in case the new 'wheel makes your endplay change.

If you will be using any used metal fuel lines then you should consider cleaning them out with a mild muratic acid solution as detailed in Ratwell(http://www.ratwell.com/technical/FuelHoses.html). There's also good charts on there on how big your fuel lines' ID need to be in certain parts of the FI fuel system. Good read if you need the info.

Oh, and if you really wanna know, Mikewire: I was putting in a rebuilt engine for someone, clutch kit and all. We got it into the engine bay, slid it on the input shaft . . . only to find the flywheel/clutch assembly 13mm too big. D'oh!

[Kirk]

Very cool. Hope to see more updates soon.
_________________
MAKE FORUMS GREAT AGAIN

Bear
Fasty
Super

[mikewire]

Updates!!

Cleaned up the interior and POR-15'd the floors. Panels all cleaned up, ready for FatMat,:

FatMat:

Recovered panels:

Got the engine stand and yoke and mounted it up:

Obligatory ACVW motor content:

Finished laying the sound dampener on each interior panel and the sliding door

Assembled most of the long block, and scrubbed tins ready to prep for POR-15. Threw in new plugs and a belt

No pics, but I pulled the fuel tank and emptied almost 2 gallons of nasty fuel - luckily, it seems to be in good shape. Found that the sender is not OEM, so it was replaced at some point. I need to replace all fuel lines and have the tank boiled or clean it out myself with some acid and then coat it to prevent it from rusting any more.
_________________
-Mike

@countdowngarage
@bigskyeuro

1972 VW Kombi 9 Passenger Deluxe w/ 2.0L F.I. VWAC swap
1965 VW Beetle Deluxe Bahama Blue