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adding bilge fan for heat
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sharkskinman
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:00 pm    Post subject: adding bilge fan for heat Reply with quote

So I got 3 inch bilge fan I'm going to hook it up like the squirrel cage fans they have in the buses

Would split into two and go into the fresh air for the heater boxes

where's best place to mount it for intake air Without it smelling
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74 Thing
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:06 pm    Post subject: Re: adding bilge fan for heat Reply with quote

I would take the intake from the interior so that the air would be recirculating and heat up faster plus you would not have to deal with humid air from that outside that is in the engine compartment when it is wet or damp outside.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: adding bilge fan for heat Reply with quote

The bilge blow is not likely to produce enough pressure to add much of anything to the air flow through the heater boxes. Even the squirrel cage blower on the buses adds nothing about 1200 rpms or so, while an axial fan puts out even less pressure.

You could:

1. Add a bilge blower inline on each side between the cooling fan outlets and the heater boxes

2. Use an RV heater fan setup which is powerful enough to exceed the cooling fan pressure at moderate rpms.

3. Add a bilge blower up front near the defroster and monitor it to make sure it doesn't get too hot (~160F)

4. Add a smallish all metal centrifugal fan up front near the defroster.
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Mark Lewalski
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:37 am    Post subject: Re: adding bilge fan for heat Reply with quote

I'd definitely put it in the interior heated ducting.

Quite a while ago, I posted about using this to pretty much do the same thing you are asking about:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=448033&highlight=

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


While I was in Germany, my buddy and I installed something similar to this in his Beetle and the results were loud but very much better for defrosting his windshield - in fact, I'd say the results far exceeded expectations.

I can't seem to find any examples of this kit online right now but I'd guess they're still out there.

Mark
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volkybus
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:12 pm    Post subject: Re: adding bilge fan for heat Reply with quote

My thing has no heater boxes a 73. my question is find the dog house cooler exit that goes out. Could I put that inside the car for some heat . I only use my thing isthrough the middle of November so it's not that cold yet. the gas heater biffed it and I need some heat ! Has anybody ever tried that before? I suppose I could put heater boxes on but they're heavy and expensive so I thought with it exit from the oil cooler might work .any ideas? thanks Bill .wait ing until it warms up to come back up and drive my thing I'm in the Caribbean So no heat worries here.
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74 Thing
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:29 am    Post subject: Re: adding bilge fan for heat Reply with quote

Get your gas heater repaired, and get some seat heaters off ebay or amazon and install them in your front seats.
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vwwestyman
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:52 pm    Post subject: Re: adding bilge fan for heat Reply with quote

I remember in the late 90s buying bilge fans and trying to set up a recirculatin setup in my 1960 Beetle.

I cut holes in the firewall below the rear window, and rerouted the ducts to go from the fans to the heat exchanger inlets. (I had installed a 1600 engine.)

Didn't work for crap, and was really loud. (So I don't advocate this at all.)

Later, I put a bilge fan under the rear seat, replacing that connector piece.

That worked great, until the PVC body of the fan melted!

I'd have to say for a '73, the best bet is to get the gas heater properly working! (That is why I shopped for a '73.)

For a '74, I think the ticket would be a booster fan at the front of the pipes, blowing up into the dash inlet. Air would probably be a little cooler up there (less likely to melt), and also you could easily come up with a way to allow a bit of cool air to mix in as suggested.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:38 pm    Post subject: Re: adding bilge fan for heat Reply with quote

vwwestyman wrote:

For a '74, I think the ticket would be a booster fan at the front of the pipes, blowing up into the dash inlet. Air would probably be a little cooler up there (less likely to melt), and also you could easily come up with a way to allow a bit of cool air to mix in as suggested.


That is pretty much what I have on my Bay. I figure with all the modifications I made I get maybe 4 times the heat into the cab. My Blumaxx blower is now something like a dozen years old.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


At 20F on the highway my bay is short sleeve comfy from one end to the other and pretty tolerable at 0F
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74 Thing
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:04 am    Post subject: Re: adding bilge fan for heat Reply with quote

How noisy is that fan under the bus and is it all the way in the front (I think I see a sway bar)?

Thanks
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:36 am    Post subject: Re: adding bilge fan for heat Reply with quote

74 Thing wrote:
How noisy is that fan under the bus and is it all the way in the front (I think I see a sway bar)?

Thanks


It is right over the front axle. When fully powered the fan was noisy so I installed an ignition ballast resister in series with it to slow it down and quiet it.

I am sure there are many hundreds of hours on the fan by this point in time.
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volkybus
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:39 am    Post subject: Re: adding bilge fan for heat Reply with quote

Well the idea with a heater in under the floor of a bay does work great..one came in my 73 and it really did pump out the heat...It was very noisy though but I have no heater boxes on my thing only factory j Mpipes and the exhaust is welded..Fixing the gas heater is a option but it caught fire and I just don't trust it ..anyway nobody thinks the dog house outlet would produce enough heat for say 35* f to bring the car to say to 60*f? I guess I I'll have to bundle up or go south sooner..Deer hunting is overrated anyway in a thing...My Westy is much better anyway.. Bill still in Puerto Rico till the crisis is over
Aa
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vwwestyman
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:15 am    Post subject: Re: adding bilge fan for heat Reply with quote

There was/is a kit available to bring an external oil cooler into a vehicle for heat. Saw it advertised in the VW rags in the 90s.

I'd certainly be concerned about over cooling the oil/engine with such a kit. I'm sure that would be mitigated with a thermostat, but then you are also not getting as much heat out of it!

As I said, the gas heater is why I preferred a '73 when I bought my Thing. I'd had enough being too cold in Beetles to be that interested in trying to heat a Thing with them!

I understand your reluctance but a properly restored BN4 really is just as safe as the furnace in your home. I suspect that it only caught fire due to either old fuel lines or some other deferred maintenance or (worse and probably more likely) a safety cut off or thermostat that was worked around/deleted.

Another option might be something like one of the cheap Chinese diesel heaters. I bet one of those would likely be no more expensive than properly installing the oil cooler as heater kit you're talking about, and also provide much better heat!
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volkybus
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:37 am    Post subject: Re: adding bilge fan for heat Reply with quote

Well I am from New England and we are known for being fugel (cheap) so spending hundreds of $ on a Aug. Heater for maybe a month just is not in my DNA. I was looking for a cheap solution. When it caught fire it was very exciting to say the least..so now I have a plug in electric heater and a fan.. I been all over the states with this car 28 so far and hope to finish up the rest.. I guess I will have to look into fixing the gas heater which was working fine before that..after ,47 years it had some rusty pipes. I did replace all the fuel lines. Nobody knows anything about this things anymore... Thanks again for your time and help.. l drove mine from San Diego back in 04..best car I've ever owned it of at least 100 ..so I guess I will fix it

Bill in Puerto Rico till the crisis is over
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vwwestyman
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:48 am    Post subject: Re: adding bilge fan for heat Reply with quote

I think you'll overall be happiest with fixing what you have! And very likely money ahead over buying a bunch of stuff and drilling holes in the car to try one of those oil cooler heater kits. Very Happy

Thankfully there is some great info in the Heater FAQ thread (in the sticky section at the top of this forum) which I used to get mine going a few years ago.

Jason Weigel (Notchboy here on the Samba) is a wealth of knowledge on fixing up these babies.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgCoLgTcj6CLShstmF-00gw

Edit to add: If your home furnace caught fire because some parts rusted out internally and/or safety switches were inoperable, you wouldn't say furnaces are "unsafe" and just plug in a space heater. You'd fix/replace it and keep it maintained. Smile
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:19 am    Post subject: Re: adding bilge fan for heat Reply with quote

volkybus wrote:
Well the idea with a heater in under the floor of a bay does work great..one came in my 73 and it really did pump out the heat...It was very noisy though but I have no heater boxes on my thing only factory j Mpipes and the exhaust is welded..Fixing the gas heater is a option but it caught fire and I just don't trust it ..anyway nobody thinks the dog house outlet would produce enough heat for say 35* f to bring the car to say to 60*f? I guess I I'll have to bundle up or go south sooner..Deer hunting is overrated anyway in a thing...My Westy is much better anyway.. Bill still in Puerto Rico till the crisis is over
Aa


I added bug heat exchangers to my first '73 Thing. One fed under the rear seat and the other went up through the back deck. With the pipes being so short I got a lot of heat into the cab, while the gas heater got windshield duty.

I have thought that one could also just force more fresh air through the gas heater to improve air flow across the windshield and distribute the hot air further around the car. Having a hot foot while you are otherwise freezing is pretty sad.
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vwwestyman
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:30 am    Post subject: Re: adding bilge fan for heat Reply with quote

I've wondered about either forcing more air into the gas heater, or sucking more air out of/through it. But I was afraid of somehow messing with the operation.

I did shove a flexible hose into the outlet of the heater, and have it hanging from a bungy cord, so I can aim the hot air a bit more. At one point, I had it ducted all the way to the back seat area.

I felt that may have caused more restriction than the heater appreciated, so I guess if I were to stick with that kind of setup, a small assist fan someplace inline would be good. Though the fan bearing was bad on that fan, so with the current good replacement it might not be an issue.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:34 am    Post subject: Re: adding bilge fan for heat Reply with quote

An older pic of my heater duct.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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volkybus
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:47 am    Post subject: Re: adding bilge fan for heat Reply with quote

On the type 4 and some deluxe later type 2 they did that..the gas heaters are in line with the reg heaters.
How many people really use their air cooled classic VW's in winter anyway? Boy we really are stuck at home...no kidding.. modern cars have Real heaters now..I can't believe what we put ourselves through... Remember Colder than a witches tit in the middle of jan that really was the inside of my bus n bugs . Thanks again for all the info.I may just fix the gas heater in my Thing...on another note I have a Eurovan in Puerto Rico with duel heaters..and they work..too bad the AC doesn't
. Bill in Puerto Rico till the crisis is over
.stay safe everyone
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vwwestyman
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:58 am    Post subject: Re: adding bilge fan for heat Reply with quote

Ha, well my "normal" car is a beat up 2002 TDI Golf with 350,000 miles. It's dual mass flywheel finally gave up on New Years Eve, so I've been driving my old buses the rest of this winter, due to lack of time to pull the Golf apart. I may finally get started on that real soon. Just in time for summer!

Thankful for the BA6 in my '73, and the new Espar heater in my '78!

But, I guess that means the Golf will be ready for next winter.
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volkybus
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:58 am    Post subject: Re: adding bilge fan for heat Reply with quote

Yup country folks always have a spare car.here in PR I got s jetta my new car a 95..+ my Eurovan 93 I call it my 2 town car cause I don't dare drive it more than 2 towns away... sometimes 3..cause it wants to break down...so I feel your pain..I bet you're glad it's spring.Kanas is pretty cold in winter isn't it? In VT my winter car till Christmas only is a golf cabro. 95 not much heat either.bad core?? +76 Westy n 73 thing...do u have parts cars? I got 1 here in PR and n 3 in VT..+ I usually have a cheap car to buy nearby on standby... Bill..
Be prepared was the boy scout thing back in the day
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