Starter doesn't spin when engine is hot

[nytagawa]

I have 61 Bus with 1600 cc, 12V. When I drive about 15~20 min or longer and once stop the engine, I can't start again. The starter can turn once or sometimes only turns half crank. Then it doesn't spin any more, just like when we have dead battery. Once it is cool enough it spins again and I can start the engine. So when I stop at Gas Station and put some gas, I can't start engine again. It happens so often. I feel it is getting worse. I have a new battery that is few day's old, I tested it and it is fine. Can this be a starter issue? Can the starter be overheated and stop working? When it is running, engine is fine, though it is bit too hot. I can't touch the top of oil dip stick.

[Eric&Barb]

Starter can not get too hot to work. When engine is cold the piston and rings are not swelled up to seal better, so compression is lower.

When engine is heated up, those parts are swelled up so higher compression requires more HP out put of the starter.

Could be any or all of the below:

1. The either or both of bushings of the starter are worn, and so the armature inside the starter is now rubbing against the inside of the field coils.

2. Corroded, dirty, loose, battery or transaxle to body ground cables.

3. Corroded, dirty, loose grounds between starter and transaxle or between starter and the starter solenoid.

4. Corroded, dirty, loose connections in the wiring, AND in the fuse box and headlight switch internal riveted connections
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[Eric&Barb]

Insides of the fuse box needs to be cleaned and solder up the internal clips of the fuse box to get rid of corrosion and looseness between the clips that causes voltage drops:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=483901&highlight=fuse+box+soldering

While you probably have the later headlight switch this is still a good read:

http://type2.com/library/electris/vw-hauptlicht-schalter.html

Some ignition switches can be improved with same on the exterior.
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[Nitramrebrab72]

The resistance in the starter motor's copper coils increases with the heat. Reducing the efficiency of the starter motor.

[Nitramrebrab72]

The engine might be getting to hot and something is getting too tight.

[Box on Wheels]

I had the same issue with my 1966 SO42 Westfalia awhile back. It worked fine when it was cold. When I stopped for gas or somewhere it wouldn't restart. Felt like a dead battery. It would just click or no noise at all after a few times of it clicking while turning the ignition key. Cleaned all the grounds and wire connections. Still did it. Replaced the 6V starter booster kit and no luck. Ended up putting a new starter in my Bus and it fires up every time like a charm!
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58 PGSG Westfalia
64 Türkis SO-35 Flip seat Westfalia
66 Pearl White SO-42 Pop-Top Westfalia
67 Titian Red SO-42 Pop-Top walk-thru Westfalia
64 Safari Beige Sunroof Notchback
97 993 S Coupe
97 993 Cabriolet
04 996 C4S Coupe

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[nytagawa]

So sounds like the solution is replacing the starter. Thank you very much everyone.

[Thompson2]

[Eric&Barb]

Any updates?
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[NUTSFORBUSES]

I installed this starter. I got it from Powerhaus in Calif.
All I can say is Wow, it is great, expensive but worth every penny and no need for a bushing

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[mdege]

I had this problem for a long time before the restoration.

Now that the bus is restored, everything has been cleaned and rewired, the same old starter works like new!

The problem was not in the starter! The issue was every ground connection and the wiring.
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- Michael

1965 21F: Restoration of a former '65 firetruck
1963 Typ3 Notchback project
1988 Multivan Magnum 112i
1984 Standard: My son wanted a bug for his first car

[galexander]

It usually is the original wiring that begins to corrode a bit over the years and the resistance begins to increase and then there ends up not being enough juice to pop the solenoid over and spin the starter.
Think about what the wiring has to do:
from the battery to the fuse block to the headlight switch to the ignition switch, then power back to the starter solenoid, that's a lot of feet of wiring.

I had the same issues sometimes with Jerry the Bus. Installed a new wiring harness from Wolfsburg West, no more issues.
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enjoy the journey,
Gary
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