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Type 877 Kommanduerwagen
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Kapt. Q
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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 8:58 am    Post subject: Type 877 Kommanduerwagen Reply with quote

Hello, Does anyone have any pictures or drawings of the original drivetrain of the Type 877, as it would greatly aid my research, I am particularly interested in the four wheel drive system. I am not interested in reproductions or anything to do with the body. I already know it's based on the Kubelwagen pan and Schwimmwagen drivetrain, which I am very familiar with. What I really want to know is how, if at all, these drivetrain parts were modified to work in the type 877, bearing in mind that this vehicle was bigger, heavier and had much larger wheels than the Schwimmwagen. Cheers
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Undis
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmm, the question seems to have fallen on deaf ears.... The only place I know where some information can be found is Chris Barber's book "The birth of the Beetle". There are a few pictures of the set up.
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Kapt. Q
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Undis wrote:
hmmm, the question seems to have fallen on deaf ears.... The only place I know where some information can be found is Chris Barber's book "The birth of the Beetle". There are a few pictures of the set up.


Thanks for the info, I'll try and hunt down that book, hope it's still in print!
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splitjunkie
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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79SuperVert
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...
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Kapt. Q
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great pictures, unfortunately the parts I'm really interested in are not shown, those are the drivetrain between the transmission and the differential including the transferbox. Where is this vehicle and is it a genuine Type 877? Perhaps I could contact them? Cheers.
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peter schepens
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I googled a bit and found some interesting picts for you :
in a search engine : schwimmwagen technic witch clicking on picts

http://www.google.be/search?um=1&hl=nl&biw...17l117l0.1

Greetings;
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Kapt. Q
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the link, but I'm very familiar with the schwimmwagen, I own a large part of the drivetrain already because I'm trying to build one, Lately I have purchased what seems to be a wartime modified version of the parts between the gearbox and differential including the transfer box, these modifications have obviously been done to strengthen it, what I need to know is wether these parts came from a type 877, after all it was bigger, heavier had larger wheels and a greater loading capacity and therefore maybe the drivetrain was strengthened to cope with this.
Here's a link to the parts I have that are in question

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=466207

The major differences between these parts over regular Schwimmwagen parts are the use of universal joints instead of flexible couplings on the longer main drive shaft and bigger studs on the flexible couplings on the smaller output drive shaft and lengthening of the regular Schwimmwagen transferbox to accomodate an extra set of bearings on each side of it.
If I can find pictures or drawings of these parts in the type 877 then I will know that is what I do or do not have! Cheers Very Happy
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peter schepens
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi kapt, I have seen the topic. Maybe Christian G can help you with...but due to a new born daughter, he will have not much time. Diper changing in stead of oil changing Laughing .
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Kapt. Q
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Peter, I'd appreciate his help when he's available, this is driving me crazy. I have amost all the parts needed to rebuild the transferbox as a schwimmwagen type as this is what I need and the main casting is the same, but this would in my opinion be a crime if these parts are genuine and unique wartime KDF parts, especially if they are from the ultra rare type 877.
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Emiel
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ha ha that is funny ,last week i was in Gmund and saw the car irl.
it is in the porsche museum helmut pfeifhofer.
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Kapt. Q
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Emiel wrote:
ha ha that is funny ,last week i was in Gmund and saw the car irl.
it is in the porsche museum helmut pfeifhofer.

Thank you, I will E-mail them.
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splitjunkie
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kapt. Q wrote:
Great pictures, unfortunately the parts I'm really interested in are not shown, those are the drivetrain between the transmission and the differential including the transferbox. Where is this vehicle and is it a genuine Type 877? Perhaps I could contact them? Cheers.


not sure where it is. Those were just some pictures on the Samba that I remembered from a few years ago.
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KäferKrieger
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A guy named Ondřej Bromo in Prague claims to be working on a true 87/7 .
just pm me for his contact info

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Undis
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kapt. Q wrote:
Undis wrote:
hmmm, the question seems to have fallen on deaf ears.... The only place I know where some information can be found is Chris Barber's book "The birth of the Beetle". There are a few pictures of the set up.


Thanks for the info, I'll try and hunt down that book, hope it's still in print!


Here are a couple of scans from the book

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Hope it helps
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Kapt. Q
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KäferKrieger wrote:
A guy named Ondřej Bromo in Prague claims to be working on a true 87/7 .
just pm me for his contact info

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Thank you KaferKrieger, this picture shows me that my parts are not from the 87/7, the linkage between the transferbox and gearbox are longer than what I have, and therefore the main driveshaft between them must also be longer. The type 166 has a shorter wheelbase than the Kubel, so I suppose it was obvious, but now I know for sure.


Also thanks to Undis for the drawings, as they clearly show an unmodified type 166 gearbox, although that is not to say that the design wasn't modified since the drawings were made, as in the case of a few components in the schwimmwagen.

Well all this leaves me back at square one, ie: I have previously unknown parts of a KDF drivetrain for ???. I must say that I am now slightly leaning towards them being a very late war modification of the schwimmwagen to improve strength, but this could only be the case if there is any known weakness in this area, something I have not heard of previously, but have not looked into. The reason I am leaning this way is simply because of the length of these components, they are for a very short wheelbase and the only KDF vehicle I know of that fits the bill is the Type 166. This theory does have holes in it though, materials and resources were short in '44, so why use more bearings, metal and time unless you have to, bearing in mind that a schwimm might not expect to last 8 weeks! Porsche did also work on a tractor with KDF components, so perhaps this is worth looking into? I suppose that I need to take the parts to some expert who can actually say wether these are genuine wartime parts. Unfortunately most KDF records were destroyed either during the Allied bombing of KDFstadt/Wolfsburg in 44 or when it was vandalized by the slave labour (fair enough) they were using when the Germans retreated from there in the face of Allied advances and left them behind.
Thank you all once again for your help, Cheers
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OUB
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, my name is Ondrej Brom. That photograph really is mine undercart. Be surprised, how got upon this forum.
Firstly I have to tell, that the don't assert, that the is that a original undercart plus or whole car original type 877. I to everyone will say, that the this vehicle is replica. It means, that the this whole wagon be premised from original part. This concrete my vehicle at war really didn't originate.
Like I'll trace next symposium about this interesting vehicle.
I am sorry for mine English. At all English I don't know plus use Google translator.
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Sameleon
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi.

More photos from Ondrej Brom's (aka OUB) chassis.
Have a fun
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KäferKrieger
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OUB, thanks for the pics and please keep more coming.
Your English is much better than our Čeština Very Happy
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An island where they can permanently sort out their indifferences & insecurities once and for all."
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Kapt. Q
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, Sameleon, that's some amazing work you have done, I'd sell my family for that rear end! I've been looking a long time for that gearbox, one day another will come along! Did you lengthen a type 166 driveshaft and gearbox linkages? Are you in the 166registry.com too? as Kaferkrieg said, more photos please Very Happy .
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