2007 - 2017 cc Build for a 1971 Bus Type 1

sambabus · Last edited by sambabus on Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:57 pm; edited 4 times in total

I just finished putting together a short block using a new CB T1 case, 78mm crank, stock length Unitek rods, 90.5mm B pistons, and engle 110 cam.

1. Am I going to be able to use stock length pushrods?

2. Would you use 40mm or 42mm intake valves and how much porting if any. I will be using dual 40mm or 44mm Webers and 4-into-one header/stock heater boxes I already have.

Intended use is freeway driving and better hill climbing.
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1971 Westy, 2017cc 78.4 x 90.5 Tims Stage 1 plus 42x37, CB 44IDF's, 135 mains, 175 airs, F111, 50 idles, Engle 110, 30mm, 009, single QP, DD CHT 300*f, VDO oil always 180* Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=541370
1970 convertible bug, 1835cc, single 40IDF, disks.
Symptoms Solved and Fixed http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=551358

rockerarm · Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:16 pm Post subject:

On the pushrod length, probably not as you will be shimming/spacing the barrels out to obtain proper deck/compression ratio. This, as you know is determined during trial assembly.
Valve size with a small cam, why the big valves? Youre supposed to run larger tubing exhaust, so why not use ported stock valve heads.
Hope this helps, Bill.

sambabus · Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:55 pm Post subject:

For the pushrod length the barrel shims really won't be much. Wouldn't it have more to do with the 78mm crank?

And planning to use the stock heater boxes and header I already have, so maybe a little restricted on the exhaust side. But the price difference between the 40mm and 42mm valves really isn't much.
_________________
1971 Westy, 2017cc 78.4 x 90.5 Tims Stage 1 plus 42x37, CB 44IDF's, 135 mains, 175 airs, F111, 50 idles, Engle 110, 30mm, 009, single QP, DD CHT 300*f, VDO oil always 180* Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=541370
1970 convertible bug, 1835cc, single 40IDF, disks.
Symptoms Solved and Fixed http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=551358

sxuxrxf · Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:20 pm Post subject:

I've had 2 different 2007/2016 engines in my Bays.

Both were:
Small-valved, stock, untouched DP heads w/ single hi-rev springs
Engle 110 cam
1-3/8 header on stock heater boxes with various muffler designs
"B" pistons on stock connecting rods
German Doghouse, external cooler, ALL tin, flaps, T-stat, etc.

On the 1st I ran 40 IDF's while the 2nd had Kadrons with 46mm bodies. Plenty of torque for any freeway or hill, even with larger tires.
The Webers definitely had more power, but the mileage was better with the Kadron engine.
Both engines ran great, but were limited by the heads and small exhaust. Good in a Bus, no fun in a Beetle.

-Robb
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(ignore the X's )

sambabus · Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:44 pm Post subject:

Today I ordered heads from Tim's:

Stage 1 Plus Heads -42x37 Valve size, Oval intake port $ 775 per pair
-stage 1 port with larger valves, use on large cc engines for torque, buses etc.
* Labor to match port intakes FREE with purchase

I might end up using these heads on my bug later.

I also heard that stock length pushrods should be fine with the B pistons.

Next I have to figure out carbs, maybe dual 44 IDF from CB. I hear they won't fit with my stock doghouse shroud.
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1971 Westy, 2017cc 78.4 x 90.5 Tims Stage 1 plus 42x37, CB 44IDF's, 135 mains, 175 airs, F111, 50 idles, Engle 110, 30mm, 009, single QP, DD CHT 300*f, VDO oil always 180* Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=541370
1970 convertible bug, 1835cc, single 40IDF, disks.
Symptoms Solved and Fixed http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=551358

Desertbusman · Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:55 pm Post subject:

Bryan67 · Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:50 am Post subject:

Of course you can use a stock fan shroud with dual carbs. It`s done all the time.
_________________
If you`re going to do something, do it right.

sambabus · Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:44 pm Post subject:

Does anyone know what the ring gaps should be on the 90.5 AA pistons?

Answer: Leave them as-is and just rotate the gaps.
_________________
1971 Westy, 2017cc 78.4 x 90.5 Tims Stage 1 plus 42x37, CB 44IDF's, 135 mains, 175 airs, F111, 50 idles, Engle 110, 30mm, 009, single QP, DD CHT 300*f, VDO oil always 180* Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=541370
1970 convertible bug, 1835cc, single 40IDF, disks.
Symptoms Solved and Fixed http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=551358

sambabus · Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:56 pm Post subject:

AA shipped the pistons w/o instructions. When I called them they said instructions should be in the box. Not there.
_________________
1971 Westy, 2017cc 78.4 x 90.5 Tims Stage 1 plus 42x37, CB 44IDF's, 135 mains, 175 airs, F111, 50 idles, Engle 110, 30mm, 009, single QP, DD CHT 300*f, VDO oil always 180* Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=541370
1970 convertible bug, 1835cc, single 40IDF, disks.
Symptoms Solved and Fixed http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=551358

sambabus · Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:19 pm Post subject:

The heads showed up and they are beautiful, 42mm intake valves, port and polish with dual springs. Are the stock rockers and pushrods going to be able to handle the dual springs? I'm going to keep the redline around 5,500rpm. Also, more thoughts about running 40mm v. 44mm idf carbs are welcome.
_________________
1971 Westy, 2017cc 78.4 x 90.5 Tims Stage 1 plus 42x37, CB 44IDF's, 135 mains, 175 airs, F111, 50 idles, Engle 110, 30mm, 009, single QP, DD CHT 300*f, VDO oil always 180* Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=541370
1970 convertible bug, 1835cc, single 40IDF, disks.
Symptoms Solved and Fixed http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=551358

sambabus · Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:33 pm Post subject: Order fail from AA

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I told them B pistons for a stroker motor... and this is what I got. Julio actually said I could shim this.
_________________
1971 Westy, 2017cc 78.4 x 90.5 Tims Stage 1 plus 42x37, CB 44IDF's, 135 mains, 175 airs, F111, 50 idles, Engle 110, 30mm, 009, single QP, DD CHT 300*f, VDO oil always 180* Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=541370
1970 convertible bug, 1835cc, single 40IDF, disks.
Symptoms Solved and Fixed http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=551358

sambabus · Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:04 pm Post subject:

Deck height with the CB case ended up being 1.25mm with the AA stroker (B) pistons. I added 1mm shims to get 8:1 compression and torqued the heads to 18 ft/lb on the 8mm studs. Base of the cylinders and shims were sealed with the same red stuff used on the case halves.

I'm concerned that the stock aluminum pushrods won't handle the dual springs, even though this will be a low rpm motor. Thoughts?
_________________
1971 Westy, 2017cc 78.4 x 90.5 Tims Stage 1 plus 42x37, CB 44IDF's, 135 mains, 175 airs, F111, 50 idles, Engle 110, 30mm, 009, single QP, DD CHT 300*f, VDO oil always 180* Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=541370
1970 convertible bug, 1835cc, single 40IDF, disks.
Symptoms Solved and Fixed http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=551358

sambabus · Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:29 pm Post subject:

_________________
1971 Westy, 2017cc 78.4 x 90.5 Tims Stage 1 plus 42x37, CB 44IDF's, 135 mains, 175 airs, F111, 50 idles, Engle 110, 30mm, 009, single QP, DD CHT 300*f, VDO oil always 180* Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=541370
1970 convertible bug, 1835cc, single 40IDF, disks.
Symptoms Solved and Fixed http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=551358

sambabus · Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 4:39 pm Post subject: Oil Pump Cover Clearance

I'm in a bit of a bind. My bus is in the shop having the new engine installed with full flow oiling and the pump cover will not clear the mustashe bar. I called Gene Berg and they are out of the GB 239B for at least 4 weeks. Any ideas?
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1971 Westy, 2017cc 78.4 x 90.5 Tims Stage 1 plus 42x37, CB 44IDF's, 135 mains, 175 airs, F111, 50 idles, Engle 110, 30mm, 009, single QP, DD CHT 300*f, VDO oil always 180* Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=541370
1970 convertible bug, 1835cc, single 40IDF, disks.
Symptoms Solved and Fixed http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=551358

Bryan67 · Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 4:42 pm Post subject:

I think the only difference in pump covers is a 45 degree fitting that you can buy at a hardware store.
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If you`re going to do something, do it right.

sambabus · Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 4:48 pm Post subject:

Thanks, I might just order the regular cover and hack it myself. In the morning I'm going to the FLAPS to measure a Empi cover to see if I can make it work.
_________________
1971 Westy, 2017cc 78.4 x 90.5 Tims Stage 1 plus 42x37, CB 44IDF's, 135 mains, 175 airs, F111, 50 idles, Engle 110, 30mm, 009, single QP, DD CHT 300*f, VDO oil always 180* Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=541370
1970 convertible bug, 1835cc, single 40IDF, disks.
Symptoms Solved and Fixed http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=551358

busdaddy · Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:00 pm Post subject:

Some covers are too fat but I've seen some fairly aggressive filing/grinding/odd angle fitting jobs work well and not leak (do leave a little wall thickness), another option to gain a little room is washers between the mustache bar and engine, no more than one (it can be one really thick one) and if it's thick get longer bolts to compensate, you'll also have to file the holes for the mounts in the frame rearward accordingly.
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Bryan67 · Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 7:21 pm Post subject:

I bought what I believe is a Brazilian style bar from a parts company back east that is tubular and should clear no problem. I don`t remember the name of the place offhand but you can search it out on here. Or you could modify the one you have.
_________________
If you`re going to do something, do it right.

sambabus · Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:35 pm Post subject:

To paint or not to paint, that is the question. Is it really worth it to paint a header? I've never seen anything that actually sticks to them for very long. I've just invested in a new, non ceramic header and had flanges welded to it at the heater box connections, the only way to stop leaks there, and I'm thinking about not painting them. It seems like a waste of time. Will the header really last much longer? And usually you can't even see the header, its the muffler that hangs down under the bumper.

This is what a Bugpack header looks like after use, not even the ceramic coating sticks to steel headers. The ceramic coated muffler still looks OK.

_________________
1971 Westy, 2017cc 78.4 x 90.5 Tims Stage 1 plus 42x37, CB 44IDF's, 135 mains, 175 airs, F111, 50 idles, Engle 110, 30mm, 009, single QP, DD CHT 300*f, VDO oil always 180* Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=541370
1970 convertible bug, 1835cc, single 40IDF, disks.
Symptoms Solved and Fixed http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=551358

Bryan67 · Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:43 pm Post subject:

That header probably had a poor quality coating job. It should be completely coated on the inside as well as the outside.
_________________
If you`re going to do something, do it right.


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