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djkeev
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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dobryan 
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 17405
Location: Brookeville, MD
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 Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: Cracked Fiberglass Westfalia Top |
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| djkeev wrote: |
I'm thinking a Dremel to make a V along the crack and fill with resin? |
I'd modify that a little bit. I'd do a V groove in from the top and then do a flat 'notch' across the top of the V groove maybe an extra 1/4 inch on each side. Fill the V groove with epoxy and some chopped fiberglass and then add a couple layers of 6 oz glass (or thicker) into the flat notch to be level with the top of the roof panel. Epoxy resin by itself is brittle and you'll need the glass to keep it from cracking again. YMMV.
BTW, Why do you think it cracked there in the first place?
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'87 Westy w/ 2010 Subaru EJ25 (Vanaru) and Peloquin TBD
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svenakela
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Joined: July 19, 2006
Posts: 776
Location: Ekerö
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| Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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To get a good bonding you need to flatten out the crack. A v groove is too steep and you should have at least an inch sanded of on both sides. When your sanding is done, don't touch the surface with your fingers as the fat from the skin is enough to lower the bonding capability of the resin.
Cut fiber weave patches and laminate on top if the crack. Use as little resin (polyester, vinylester or epoxi doesn't really mattter in this case) as possible. The fiber patch should hardly wet through when you add next patch on top.
Let it gel, brush a thin layer of sanding resin at last when the laminate has thickened a bit. Not too late though. Let it cure, sand off, touch up paint and go camping.
I do composite repairs every day just ask if you have any questions. |
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madspaniard
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Joined: August 18, 2008
Posts: 3795
Location: Alameda, CA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| svenakela wrote: |
To get a good bonding you need to flatten out the crack. A v groove is too steep and you should have at least an inch sanded of on both sides. When your sanding is done, don't touch the surface with your fingers as the fat from the skin is enough to lower the bonding capability of the resin.
Cut fiber weave patches and laminate on top if the crack. Use as little resin (polyester, vinylester or epoxi doesn't really mattter in this case) as possible. The fiber patch should hardly wet through when you add next patch on top.
Let it gel, brush a thin layer of sanding resin at last when the laminate has thickened a bit. Not too late though. Let it cure, sand off, touch up paint and go camping.
I do composite repairs every day just ask if you have any questions. |
that is how I fix my windsurfing boards!
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1971BugGuy
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Posts: 426
Location: Ontario, CANADA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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Sand off to flocking, repair the fiberglass and reflock the top. You can buy flocking kits in almost any colour and they are very easy to use and get even results with. There is flocking powder and application guns or shakers available. Here is just one example:
http://www.flocking.biz/
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1986 Vanagon Westfalia Weekender |
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Terry Kay
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Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331
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| Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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Leave the inside alone if you want--but that will mean you'll have to take the crack out way beyond it on the outside only.
The proper way would be to re-glass it on both sides, for maximum strength.
Grind a kerf at least 6" wide on the top, load it up with a layer of woven fiberglass & resin.
When it sets up--give it a quick wave with the grinder, and you can then add chopped up glass to fill the wallow.
Then finish grind & sand to the correct level.
Don't get in a hurry and use too much hardener in the resin--it'll smoke as it sets up and be real brittel.
The longer it takes to cure , the stronger the bond.
Then--if you want you can hog out a V inside--up to the repair on the outside, and add just chopped up glass & resin.
Lay it out on a plastic bag, soak the glass with the resin on the bag, and stick it up to the top flat--work out the air bubbles with a paint stick, and slowly remove the plastic before it sets up--
Again--add only the recommended amount of hardener, so it isn't a brittle repair.
Then you'll be good to go--
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svenakela
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Joined: July 19, 2006
Posts: 776
Location: Ekerö
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| Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| madspaniard wrote: |
| svenakela wrote: |
To get a good bonding you need to flatten out the crack. A v groove is too steep and you should have at least an inch sanded of on both sides. When your sanding is done, don't touch the surface with your fingers as the fat from the skin is enough to lower the bonding capability of the resin.
Cut fiber weave patches and laminate on top if the crack. Use as little resin (polyester, vinylester or epoxi doesn't really mattter in this case) as possible. The fiber patch should hardly wet through when you add next patch on top.
Let it gel, brush a thin layer of sanding resin at last when the laminate has thickened a bit. Not too late though. Let it cure, sand off, touch up paint and go camping.
I do composite repairs every day just ask if you have any questions. |
that is how I fix my windsurfing boards! |
I manage courses in windsurfing repair methods. There are a bunch of new boards coming out from the workshop too. 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/svenneduva/8031972896/in/set-72157628844073535/lightbox/ |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32987
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:09 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for all of the tips! I really appreciate it.
I really don't want to mess with the Flocking even though I'll get a stronger patch. Leaving well enough alone for now. If the crack returns....... New Game! 
I used my Dremel with a tapered helical cut bit in it to grind away the top layers and about 1/2 way through the fiberglass creating a well in which to place my patch. I made it about 2" wide, 1" on either side and past the cracks termination.
This is a critical drainage area so don't want to create a dam here, hence recessing the patch into the top.
Next I took fiberglass Mat and cut two pieces to fit, one wider than the next and curved to follow the crack.......
Next I mixed up the Resin in a paper cup using a clean stick. I applied the resin with a new acid brush........ Careful to not add too much hardener as Terry advised!
Taking the advice given I didn't flood the Mat with Resin but applied a thin coat and dabbed the Mat into the Resin, using enough so the Fibers went clear indicating they've soaked up the Resin like a sponge. I then applied the 2nd layer of Mat and did likewise.
Now to let it dry and apply a top coat of Resin!
Dave
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Last edited by djkeev on Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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PDXWesty
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Joined: April 11, 2006
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Location: Portland OR
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| Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:20 am Post subject: |
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Drilling a small hole at the end of the crack before you completed the repair would have helped prevent it from spreading. Perhaps you could still do this before you finish and paint it and it might still help. Just fill it with resin afterward.
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Vanagon Nut
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| Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:22 am Post subject: |
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I recently repaired the luggage rack (3 nasty crackS at a corner) and 2 odd wear spots on pop top.
Nice thing about pop top; who looks up there anyways?
I bet your repairs will look nicer than mine but even so. Almost NO one will ever look at that spot on your top. Oh. Wait.... 
Neil.
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djkeev
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r39o
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Joined: May 18, 2005
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| Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:06 am Post subject: |
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Stop drilling cracks is standard procedure. No big deal. A single 3 mm or 1/8 inch hole is just fine.
Further, I would inspect the long cover that goes over the the winding mechanism too. I find they crack. That cover is not just for decoration. It provides reinforcement. Drive with it off and you will see the area where the 4 studs are for it move up and down as you go.
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Bntbrl
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| Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:14 am Post subject: |
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The repair looks ok. It would have been better I think to use a 2" grinding disk and like TK said, widen it out with feathering or scarf cut as carpenters might call it. The wider the repair the more surface there is to bond ( within reason, a few inches depending on thickness to a foot or more for a boat hull. The more layers of mat you get in the stronger too. Mat is stronger than glass fill. You did better by making larger layers on top of each other.
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djkeev
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| Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:34 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the replies, honestly, I know I could have invested a lot more time into the repair here.
I guess I'm thinking that its simply a weekend pleasure vehicle for four maybe five weekends a year? Total mileage driven over the next ten years will be low as well. Maybe a week long drive?
I'm taking the "easy" gamble, if it re-cracks it really isn't a big deal to fix. It isn't a corvette body or something exposed to a rigorous life. Touching up the paint is of little concern seeing its location on top and out of sight, plus being an off the shelf product.
The PO had silicone sealed around the skylight, I'm guessing he climbed up there and that may be the source of the crack. He wasn't a small man!
.........I HATE Silicone Caulk!  It rarely works well long term and always causes a hard to remove mess.
Dave
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photogdave
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svenakela
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| Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, 'til next time;
* Smooth out the area with a sanding paper or a disc, not a router bit. The sanding makes a rougher surface that the resin bonds better to as it is mostly a mechanical bonding.
* Use less resin and much more fiber. Use a woven weave instead of a CSM (Chopped Stranded Mat). A plain weave will result in a higher fiber/resin ratio and as long as you use polyester you really want a lot of fiber.
* You have laminated a bigger area than the crack and a stop drilling is not really needed. If you do it you don't need to drill all the way through anyway. We stop drill in plastic parts only, never in fiber composites. |
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rockfish
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| Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks to all for contributing to this thread and to djkeev for posting all of your photos. I will be repainting the pop top this summer and will need to repair some cracks in the luggage rack --- this information will help me for sure!
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djkeev
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| Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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rockfish,
When I started this I was a little "overwhelmed" by the scope of the project but it has turned out to be fairly simple. The hard part is preparation, cleaning and sanding. I thought the rear section would be multiple times harder than the front but not so! The luggage area has so much more contour and definition to it that it is actually the harder more involved piece to repaint.
Also keep in mind paint quantity. I've painted the required three coats on the luggage rack and two coats on the full lift top section.
My can is almost empty. There isn't enough to do a full 3rd coat on the pop top. Almost..... but not quite. I'll need to open a 2nd can. I could scrimp and do the sides I see three coats and not the top but...... that's just silly!
I used Interlux Brightside sold only by the qts. Fortunately for me I've got another small fiberglass painting project that I can use the rest of the 2nd can on!
Check out this link as well...... Ive posted both the Brightside colors and the Awlgrip colors. Interestingly both made by AkzoNobel here in New Jersey!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=462517
Dave
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djkeev
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djkeev
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