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JK73Super
Samba Member
Joined: July 26, 2013
Posts: 80
Location: Ontario, Canada
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 Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:42 pm Post subject: Cracks in #3 and #4 cylinder head |
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Is this head scrap, or can it be repaired, or worth a repairing?
Recently, I disassembled by engine due to low compression and ended up with an alignment bore, new bearings, new pistons, cylinder, tappets…….
Before assembling the case, I decided to clean up the heads and found #3 and #4 cylinder head cracked between the spark plug hole and valve seats, as can be seen below.
I had a pile of parts given to me a while ago and I found two heads, which are very dirty and carboned up. I’m in the process of cleaning them up. However, I’m not sure if this head is an exact fit (appears to be) for my 1600 DP, since it came with a different type engine.
Other than type 1, I’m not familiar with the others. Can anyone tell what type the engine is in the picture below, and if the head came off of that block, can they be used on the standard 1600 DP engine case. Or for that matter are the engine cases the same?
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johnnypan
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Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 7431
Location: sackamenna
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| Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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Type 3/4 late bus engine fuel injected...heads wont work..
Been involved in a few debates over reusing cracked heads,some say never,some say never if cracked to the spark plug hole,but ok between the valves...some say its okay to reuse cracked heads regardless of cracked area..Im inclined to go with the last,Ive pulled down engines than ran fine with cracked heads, its impossible to tell when the head cracked,its possible its ran for thousands of hard miles like that..Id timesert that spark plug hole to stabilize the crack and rock those heads..if the guides and seats play out... |
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volksworld
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Joined: November 26, 2011
Posts: 2580
Location: formerly NY currently NC
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| Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| never use a head cracked to the plug hole....the engine in the picture is a type III...should be a 1600...head will fit but if it doesn't have the step around the edge it is a higher compression and would need a barrel spacer under the cylinder to match it to the other side...after 40 years you never know what has been installed,it could have a head of any year or model on it |
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75smith
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Joined: July 09, 2011
Posts: 2275
Location: NH
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| Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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post a pic of the whole head, and the part number under the rockers
could be type 1 heads with a late motor, no way to completely tell with those pictures,
but those heads aren't good, unless you get them welded, and very few people will weld heads anymore, cause the welds just don't last
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My 1975 Beetle Build Updated 8-21-12
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Bashr52
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Joined: July 16, 2006
Posts: 5669
Location: On an island in VA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:30 am Post subject: |
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| Cracks from plug to valve are junk heads. Cracks just between valves are ok. |
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thechief86
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Joined: January 18, 2012
Posts: 860
Location: middle tn
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:54 am Post subject: |
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I guess I learned something today! I scrapped about a dozen heads because they were cracked between the valves, even though my engine ran fine with one of them. I spent a lot of time looking around for original German heads to port and polish for my 1679, and after several months found a perfect set.
Does anyone else agree that cracks between the valves are ok? I have a few of those left that I might not scrap now...
I had been told that any cracks of any type in any location on a Vw head meant they were junk.
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"A poor workman always blames his parts... Ya gotta have skillz to hang junk." -johnnypan |
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drs1023
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Joined: October 20, 2011
Posts: 1682
Location: Georgia, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| Another point of view - V-grind the crack past the depth of the crack and weld it back in. For those who say "Never run a cracked head" (either plug to valve or valve to valve), please consider the reason you are tearing down the engine. If the crack is the root cause of the teardown such as blowing exhaust through the crack or losing vacuum or compression, then, by all means, scrap it, but if you are tearing down an engine for burning oil, rattling, poor oil pressure, etc. and that engine just happens to have a cracked head . . . well, you get my logic. Of course, I wouldn't build a drag car using cracked heads, but I'd wager that literally thousands of beetles are running around with unknown cracked heads with no consequences. |
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johnnypan
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Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 7431
Location: sackamenna
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| Heads crack from heat stress.. once cracked, the stress is relieved.I was of the opinion of bashr and volksworld, the crack to the plug hole could allow the valve seat to dislodge, no doubt.. but there are some folks on here working with heads cracked like that,they have success timeserting the plug hole,basically closing the edge of the crack once they felt the seat was anchored..then peening the crack itself to prevent hotspots..takes guts however,if your wrong it will cost ya.. |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32987
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Dwayne1m
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Joined: December 31, 2011
Posts: 3538
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| Knowing I have a crack of any kind in the head or case would make me very nervous. Every strange noise or stumble from the engine would make me cringe. I just wouldn't be able to trust that car. But that's just me. |
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djkeev
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Volks Wagen
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Joined: February 13, 2013
Posts: 2931
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| drs1023 wrote: |
| Another point of view - V-grind the crack past the depth of the crack and weld it back in. |
This would be my approach too. I'd at least investigate how far the crack went - could be surface. That may have been heat, may have been someone overtorquing a plug, may have been plug wound in on top of hardcarbon deposits. There's a lot of meat around the seat and it doesn't look like it's lifting.
Of course if you ask anyone who may be blamed they'll say replace the head. Logical. But it's your money, get out the dremel.
Other guys throwing heads out without checking must have more money than sense. Recycle! 
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thechief86
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Joined: January 18, 2012
Posts: 860
Location: middle tn
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't say I have more money than sense, but rather listen to the advice of older guys who have more experience with aircooled motors than I. I never really considered that if the motor ran ok the heads must be fine...
I did have one cracked head that allowed one exhaust valve seat to sink about .25" into the head. That one ran fine, too, as long as I adjusted the valve back out every 500 miles or so, then installing washers between the head and rocker rail so I could get some lash, lol.
I think I'd rather just use uncracked heads so I don't have to tear the motor back down when it messes up again. For the record, I have some cool friends with fields of junk cars that I was able to rob heads off of. I just had to lap the valves and put in new springs is all. The set I'm going to put on next week got a lot of port and polish work before I put the valves back in...
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"A poor workman always blames his parts... Ya gotta have skillz to hang junk." -johnnypan |
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JK73Super
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Joined: July 26, 2013
Posts: 80
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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Someone asked for the Head ID number to determine whether my spare carboned up heads can be used as replacement for my cracked head.
Below are the picture with the head ID. I hope I can use the spares.
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djkeev
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