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syncrogreg
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Joined: November 08, 2009
Posts: 743
Location: USA (Nashville TN)
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kuleinc
Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2007
Posts: 1604
Location: East Bay Area, California
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syncrogreg
Samba Member
Joined: November 08, 2009
Posts: 743
Location: USA (Nashville TN)
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kuleinc
Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2007
Posts: 1604
Location: East Bay Area, California
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Jon_slider
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2007
Posts: 5091
Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
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 Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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summarized below
_________________
My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco
Last edited by Jon_slider on Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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D Clymer
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 2987
Location: Issaquah, WA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Jon_slider wrote: |
> Future Syncro setup with rear diff all diesel spec.
imho, a 4.86 R&P is a good match for a TDi syncro with wheels no larger than 215x75x15
assuming you use a 4.86 front diff from a syncro, what is the cost of a reversed 4.86 for the rear transaxle..
I dont suppose the Subaru diesel transaxle cost includes the reversed R&P
I take it there is not a 5.43 Ring and pinion option for the Subaru diesel transaxle, at all, not reversed either..
so the subaru diesel tranny is really just for 2wd Vans, not syncros, no? |
Yes, that's about right. 4.86:1 isn't a particularly short ratio once you factor in the approx 27" diameter of 215/75/15s, so you wouldn't want to go with bigger tires than that.
As I've said before on here, using the Subaru transmission in all wheel drive form in a Vanagon will make a fantastic rough road and snowy road syncro, but not an off-road one. It's interesting how many people have indicated that they would be interested in such a vehicle.
With serious off-roading not on the agenda, I don't really see the point in fitting tires larger than 215/75/15. Looks wise, a Syncro already looks aggressive on this tire size. I know, because I have a Syncro with this tire size. Running on this size with a 4.86 final drive, the Subaru diesel would be geared pretty well for all-purpose use.
I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that the Subaru diesel transmission is only suitable for 2wd conversions. It is in fact suitable for AWD conversions. It just would be geared for road performance rather than off-road crawling. And there would be a gearing imposed limit to the tire diameter that could be used. Working within these parameters, I think there is a lot to be excited about.
David |
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D Clymer
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 2987
Location: Issaquah, WA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| syncrogreg wrote: |
Future Syncro setup with rear diff all diesel spec..(front diff for syncro)
GSB |
It's interesting how much that Subaru rear differential actually resembles a VW Syncro front differential... |
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Jon_slider
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2007
Posts: 5091
Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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summarized below
_________________
My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco
Last edited by Jon_slider on Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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D Clymer
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 2987
Location: Issaquah, WA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Jon_slider wrote: |
Im just trying to get clarity on what the application of the subaru tranny is
if I am mistaken in my analysis, I am happy to learn more
I think your 2wd application of the subaru tranny sounds like it has very good gearing ratios. Congrats.
I do not think syncrogreg's subaru diesel tranny has any application to a syncro. I have not seen any post from him to indicate he is using it in his syncro build. |
I think we're saying the same thing, Jon. I've said from the beginning that using the Subaru AWD system and transmission would not create a Syncro suitable for heavy off road use.
You are correct that it is not suitable for hardcore off road applications because it has no granny gear. For that matter there is also no available locker for it. However, for people who want a rough road and snow Syncro, the Subaru AWD system and transmission make a lot of sense. With the full time 50/50 torque split AWD, the availability of several torque biasing rear differentials, and all that ground clearance it will be one heck of a ski vehicle.
This type of vehicle excites me, and from the posts I've read here and in various other places, it excites a lot of other people too. It would be nice if the Subaru transmission and AWD system were the answer for the hard core off roaders among us, but it isn't. What it does represent, is the basis for building a whole new type of Syncro with great gearing for highway performance and traction for all road conditions. To me that's pretty exciting.
David |
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syncrogreg
Samba Member
Joined: November 08, 2009
Posts: 743
Location: USA (Nashville TN)
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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I first thought that it will be nice to have a 4.86 r&p Subaru setup so it could match the original front diff of a Syncro BUT, thinking a litltle bit more, I realized that the only reason to keep a Syncro front diff will be to have the locker. Now that I can source the diff (equiped with LSD) I think that it is best to stick with the stock Subaru ratio  in order to use the Subaru combo.
I don't know what my syncro will end up with but i'm getting tempted with the complete Subaru driveline.
Jon, torque of the diesel is 2200 rpm... how much mph is that in first gear?
LSD 
GSB
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canasync
Samba Member
Joined: June 28, 2010
Posts: 657
Location: BC
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| D Clymer wrote: |
| syncrogreg wrote: |
Future Syncro setup with rear diff all diesel spec..(front diff for syncro)
GSB |
It's interesting how much that Subaru rear differential actually resembles a VW Syncro front differential... |
I don't think that Greg is talking about the ever popular German made Subaru 325.
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1987 Syncro
3 knobs
PumpeDüse TDI (17mm Garret Turbo, bigger injectors, stage 4 malone tune, intercooled)
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1985 2wd Vanagon Pre-runner in the making
soon to be powered by 2.5L Subaru
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Zeitgeist 13
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Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12175
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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Orphaned by thread split
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Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH
'01 Weekender --> full camper
NEAT, no ICE.
Last edited by Zeitgeist 13 on Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jon_slider
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2007
Posts: 5091
Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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> torque of the diesel is 2200 rpm... how much mph is that in first gear?
10.5 mph @ 2200 rpm with the subaru diesel 3.454 1st,
6 mph @ 2200 rpm with the syncro 6.03 granny gear
_________________
My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco
Last edited by Jon_slider on Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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D Clymer
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 2987
Location: Issaquah, WA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Jon_slider wrote: |
And I agree that a 2wd Vanagon with a front and Rear Subaru AWD system is desireable too. Rock on! |
Yeah, except you really have to start with a Syncro van to realize this combination since you still need a front suspension assembly that can accept drive axles, and you still need a rear mounted gas tank so there's room for the prop shaft.
In some ways, I think this is a good situation. Since Syncro transmissions are becoming so rare and sought after, maybe being able to pull some of these out of vans that people want to do 5MT AWD conversions in would be helpful to the offroad Syncro crowd.
I honestly think the Syncro transmission with all the available lower ring and pinion choices, and the Peloquin locker/TBD is almost a perfect situation for true offroad enthusiasts. I guess the only real problem is the lack of durability of this transmission for anything more powerful than an EJ25 conversion.
David |
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jackbombay
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2007
Posts: 2725
Location: Portland Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| D Clymer wrote: |
| I've said from the beginning that using the Subaru AWD system and transmission would not create a Syncro suitable for heavy off road use. |
My $20 in a horse race says that there are not many people that actually want to do much/any heavy off roading. I think a lot of people are intrigued buy it, but they have romanticized it and if they ever go heavy off roading they will be put off by it. I've find it thoroughly annoying TBH, I'd rather get out of my van and ride my bike. YMMV
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crazyvwvanman
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Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 10451
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:36 am Post subject: |
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Seriously, many people would benefit from a more normalized Syncro driveline that gave up G gear but made up for it with a closer ratio 5 speed and taller top gear. I visited Weddle some years back to talk about a similar concept, using a 094 Vanagon 5 speed but adapting it to a front output to connect to the Syncro front diff. He said it was the first time he had heard that idea and the costs of a one off would be prohibitive. I said it was probably not the last time and if it was available some people would want it. Compared to the costs and difficulties of putting the Subaru tranny in a Syncro the VW 094 tranny approach seems suddenly practical. The available r&p ratios for the 094 are matched in the Syncro front diff. It doesn't solve the strong engine durability aspects of course like the Subaru tranny should.
Mark
| jackbombay wrote: |
| D Clymer wrote: |
| I've said from the beginning that using the Subaru AWD system and transmission would not create a Syncro suitable for heavy off road use. |
My $20 in a horse race says that there are not many people that actually want to do much/any heavy off roading. I think a lot of people are intrigued buy it, but they have romanticized it and if they ever go heavy off roading they will be put off by it. I've find it thoroughly annoying TBH, I'd rather get out of my van and ride my bike. YMMV |
Last edited by crazyvwvanman on Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:52 am Post subject: |
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So, if a different trans and diff are to be used.....what replaces the VW VC?
And dont reply, solid shaft.
I have an option in mind, but it aint cheap 
Are Syncro owners really ready to pay upwards of $25,000 for a Subaru driveline conversion?
My experience says $2500 is a stretch for most.
Just as with the Subaru diesel conversion, great for a 2wd van, but pricey if building a $yncro. |
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syncrogreg
Samba Member
Joined: November 08, 2009
Posts: 743
Location: USA (Nashville TN)
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| insyncro wrote: |
what replaces the VW VC?
Are Syncro owners really ready to pay upwards of $25,000 for a Subaru driveline conversion? |
1/ the Subaru VC , number 11
2/ you're way off, 25k is the price of a new car at the Subaru dealership.
Subaru gearbox 1975 and rear diff 995.
For information, modifiying the VW gearbox to suit the subaru use is about 3k of gearing and bellhousing... and you still need to be light on the pedal 
Stay on track, this is realistic project with big potential !
GSB
_________________
conversions: www.boxeer.com Common rail TDI and NOW PDK transmissions!!
travel pictures:
http://instagram.com/crepeattack/
- the Pastis build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=434656&highlight=subaru+diesel |
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levi
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2005
Posts: 5522
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| jackbombay wrote: |
| D Clymer wrote: |
| I've said from the beginning that using the Subaru AWD system and transmission would not create a Syncro suitable for heavy off road use. |
My $20 in a horse race says that there are not many people that actually want to do much/any heavy off roading. I think a lot of people are intrigued buy it, but they have romanticized it and if they ever go heavy off roading they will be put off by it......
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I'll add my $20 that most folks who want a syncro, want it because:
1 they look badass
2 it's an elite club, within an elite club
3, and a very distant 3, if if if they should ever NEED it, (once every 10 years), it'll be there.
Now an all-wheel drive system for 2wd, that's something that would be really useful to a large range of folks.
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whafalia
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Joined: January 28, 2009
Posts: 685
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| I caught my honey looking at pictures of syncro adventures the other night, I had to remind her that when we had a jeep I took to calling the 4-low position the noise-maker cause the couple of times I used it loud moans and gasps and general disapproval emanated from the passenger seat where she was. Used 4-high many times in inclement weather and dirt roads. Too bad that the subie awd seems to require a syncro base, perhaps that may change with further development? |
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