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Help! stuck bolt that holds upper control arm on my '89 Van
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bluebus86
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry Kay wrote:
While you might think you can buy a gallon of Kroil locally I'm real sorry, not here.
It's mail order only, I buy it direct.

And while your waiting for the Siberian White Yak Sperm oil to loosen up that frozen bushing bolt, I'm all done and back on the road.
The sawzall takes no time at all.
If I got really pissed I would have burnt the skanky bushing outa there.

You guys do enjoy killing time ,surely probably are all bald from scratching out the hair follicles trying to figure out your next move.


Bottom line is Kano Labs is not the only place to get it. Some folks get it at guns stores, auto parts stores, industrial supply stores and of course mail order from many vendors.

No hair scratching required, the first move is to search for it on the internet. There are lots of sources for it other than direct from Kano Labs.

Some of us are not trying to kill time, rather some are trying to come up with and disseminate solutions for others that do not waste time without hair loss. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty small & narrow pickle fork.

Might work.
Instead of looking for that magic deal for penetrating oil,
cut it outa there, beat the bushing out on a bench, get it over with.

Or is this a Union thing?
--"Don't Kill the Job??"--
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jonsonneborn
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I got it out! Turns out the bolt was not bent but the bolt (head side) was rusted to the inner bushing sleeve. I sawzalled the bolt in 2 places; removed the Upper Control Arm & the rest came out easily. Below are a few photos of what's left. In the 2nd photo you can still see the bolt head which is permanently seized to the bushing!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Now I am curious if the van will ride any better (& quieter) on all new bushings, ball joints, tie rod ends, shocks & struts? Time will tell!
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice job--
Bada boom , Bada Bing--it's out.

If you had just soaked that bolt for another 6-8 weeks in PB Blaster it would have slid right outa there without wasting any electricity---- Rolling Eyes
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SlalomVan
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Terry Kay"]While you might think you can buy a gallon of Kroil locally I'm real sorry, not here.
It's mail order only, I buy it direct.

I buy Kroil off the shelf locally at Tacoma Screw. You can order it online here:
http://www.tacomascrew.com/Products/Greases-Lubric...kroil-Kano

It is expensive - but works!
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1988 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg (Orly Blue - "Poulsbo")
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't use aerosol Kroil.
I buy it by the gallon, it goes farther, and nobody here sells gallons.
This is why I buy it direct from Kano.

And I an honestly say that even Kroil after 6 months of soaking wouldn't have broke that bolt & bushing loose from each other.
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jonsonneborn
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry Kay wrote:

If you had just soaked that bolt for another 6-8 weeks in PB Blaster it would have slid right outa there without wasting any electricity---- Rolling Eyes


Thanks Terry! Yup gonna go buy a whole case of the PB so I can soak & retrieve the remainder of my bolt + reuse the bushing Smile

BTW the smell of thay PB crap is horrible & it seems to linger all over my clothes, hands (even with latex gloves). Must be some nasty stuff.

Very happy to be moving to the reassembly phase:
Go Westy no lift springs
Billstein HD shocks
Polyurethane Lower bushings
All new bushings, tie rods, ball joints, etc throughout.....
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AS I mentioned--why screw around with some old Indian hat dance treatment--
The PB is good hair tonic, wart remover, cures chapped lips, hemorrhoid relief--but not much good for anything else-- when you need something done--get serious.

The sawzall was the right way to go on this job.
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jvan
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:49 am    Post subject: Re: Help! stuck bolt that holds upper control arm on my '89 Reply with quote

Cutting the upper control arm bolt=new upper control arm required?

Les schawb was unable to do a front alignment because my front left upper control arm bolt is frozen. I asked them if it could be cut out and they said yes but then i would need to replace the UCA.

Also, while my right side is a bit loose, my left side is solid, though they claim both sides inner and outter tides will need to be replaced to complete a proper alignment.

I understand the "while you're in there" philosophy, atleast i think i do. (Where does one stop? Exoxy sprayed undercoating etc... Razz)

Les schawb did not directly claim i should since i will be in there, but i understand if thats what the mechanic is getting at or if thats what is practical. But for the time being i dont want to replace unnecessary parts (I am interested in doing a total front end rebuilt, but currently i am not quite ready to do so.)

Thoughts?



J
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jonsonneborn
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:59 am    Post subject: Re: Help! stuck bolt that holds upper control arm on my '89 Reply with quote

jvan wrote:
Cutting the upper control arm bolt=new upper control arm required?

Also, while my right side is a bit loose, my left side is solid, though they claim both sides inner and outter tides will need to be replaced to complete a proper alignment.

J


Nope. What rusts together is the bolt to the uca bushing. You can cut out the bolt & bushing & get it out without damaging the upper control arm. I did. went through a few Sawzall blades. Once out a new set of bushings goes in pretty easily. If you do end up damaging the upper control arm I have a spare I could ship you for about $35 shipped.

The tie rod ends wear & develop play. They are pretty inexpensive to replace & are a safety item. These should get done when you do your front end or sooner.

Here is a new tie rod end vs. old
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


New Upper Control Arm Bushing (there are 4 total; 2 per side)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is my upper control arm just after I cut it out (cut through the bolt & bushing on both sides. Note, the bushing protrudes on both sides so it can be cut out without damaging the arm.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Side View of the bushing slightly cut with part of the bolt still rusted to the inside of the bushing. The bushings have metal sleeves on the inside which is why the bolt rusts to the bushing.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Help! stuck bolt that holds upper control arm on my '89 Reply with quote

jonsonneborn...great and thanks for the write up. So simply cut off and replace bolt with bushings, though what am i looking at in terms of putting back together?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Help! stuck bolt that holds upper control arm on my '89 Reply with quote

jvan wrote:
jonsonneborn...great and thanks for the write up. So simply cut off and replace bolt with bushings, though what am i looking at in terms of putting back together?


Yes, Order a new set of bushings. You will also need to source a new bolt. Cut through the bushing as close to the arm as possible on the inside on either side(be careful not to damage the eccentric washers that are in there). The control arm should come off. Remove anything remaining in the chassis (rest of the bolt). The bushings have a small tack weld to the arm which grinds off easily. With a big hammer you should be able to whack the old bushings out of the arms (once tack weld is ground off). The new ones go in about as easy as the old ones came out except protect them from the blunt force of the hammer (block of wood, etc). I believe that I used a big C clamp to press mine in. Everything gets bolted back together & torqued properly. Send back to the alignment shop!

P.S. The eccentric washers are pictured in my 3rd photo above; they are large round washers with the hole off center. The hole is also a perfect fit for the squared edge of the long bolt you'll be destroying & replacing.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Help! stuck bolt that holds upper control arm on my '89 Reply with quote

jonsonneborn wrote:
Send back to the alignment shop!


And preferably not Les Schwab. Seriously! I'm not being glib. Your tag line says you are in Cascadia, so if you want to let us know where you live, maybe we can help you find a good alignment shop that is familiar with Vanagons. More Vanagon alignments have been screwed up by shops who either don't care or don't have the proper knowledge to work on a Vanagon. For whatever odd reason, the Vanagon tends to spin the typical alignment tech's brains to mush. It's worth your time to find and use a good, reputable shop.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 5:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Help! stuck bolt that holds upper control arm on my '89 Reply with quote

Great..thanks again. Recommended bushings? I see go westy sells a set of four for $179.99...worth the cost or how about Rocky mountain at one for $20?

I am in the Seattle area...a recommended alignment shop that knows vanagons would be great and beyond there too, I am willing to travel.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 5:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Help! stuck bolt that holds upper control arm on my '89 Reply with quote

jvan wrote:
Great..thanks again. Recommended bushings? I see go westy sells a set of four for $179.99...worth the cost or how about Rocky mountain at one for $20?

I am in the Seattle area...a recommended alignment shop that knows vanagons would be great and beyond there too, I am willing to travel.


There are others that I can recommend if this doesn't work out, but give Pete a call at Truline in Bellevue (425 462 0013). Pete is a Syncro owner and enthusiast. He sees LOTS of Vanagons and does excellent work. Ask him his opinion of bushings before purchasing anything.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Help! stuck bolt that holds upper control arm on my '89 Reply with quote

i assume one would cut right between the bushing and the washer to the right?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Any tips for doing this?

Jack up, remove wheel and....carefully cut away? Sugesstions?

Also, anyone in the seattle or westren washington area have a used or new control arm bolt? I may also be down in the nw area of Oregon this weekend if anyone in that area has one.

thanks,

J
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Help! stuck bolt that holds upper control arm on my '89 Reply with quote

I have new bolts in stock and I'm over in Redmond. http://www.t3technique.com/suspension-and-drivetra...-bolt.html

As for cutting, yes that's the area to cut. Nothing more to mention other than to be sure that you only cut through the bolt and bushing.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Help! stuck bolt that holds upper control arm on my '89 Reply with quote

Christopher Schimke wrote:
I have new bolts in stock and I'm over in Redmond. http://www.t3technique.com/suspension-and-drivetra...-bolt.html

As for cutting, yes that's the area to cut. Nothing more to mention other than to be sure that you only cut through the bolt and bushing.


great, thank you...i will be stopping by.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Help! stuck bolt that holds upper control arm on my '89 Van Reply with quote

jonsonneborn wrote:
I am in the middle of a full suspension rebuild on my '89 Vanagon & I got everything out except the front driver's side Upper Control Arm. The long bolt (with the funny shaped washers ) does not want to come out:
Nut has been removed!
Bolt can be turned a 1/2 turn or more in either direction but then locks up.


This is normal right? Because of the eccentric washers the bolt can not turn more than 1/2 a turn?

I think I have the same situation, but really don't want to start cutting. My guess is that having it THAT loose means that somehow it SHOULD be free-able without starting WW3 on the poor thing.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Help! stuck bolt that holds upper control arm on my '89 Van Reply with quote

epowell wrote:
jonsonneborn wrote:
I am in the middle of a full suspension rebuild on my '89 Vanagon & I got everything out except the front driver's side Upper Control Arm. The long bolt (with the funny shaped washers ) does not want to come out:
Nut has been removed!
Bolt can be turned a 1/2 turn or more in either direction but then locks up.


This is normal right? Because of the eccentric washers the bolt can not turn more than 1/2 a turn?

I think I have the same situation, but really don't want to start cutting. My guess is that having it THAT loose means that somehow it SHOULD be free-able without starting WW3 on the poor thing.


In my case it turned out that the bolt had rusted & attached itself to the inside side of the bushings (which are metal at the contact points). It was necessary to cut the bolt in 2 places. I still have the bushings with bolt pieces frozen inside. Obviously the bolt had to be replaced but the only other damage from cutting was to the bushing housing which was completely replaced.
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