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allthefineprint
Samba Member
Joined: March 21, 2016
Posts: 91
Location: Perished, Mi
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 Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:19 pm Post subject: gas tank placement question |
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are there any laws that anyone knows of regarding placement of a gas tank on a fiberglass buggy? basically, there's no frame or safe place to put one, unless you have a cage. I'd like to just mount up a tank in the "back seat", forfeit the room so that I can make my desired mods to the frontend, which would involve permanently closing the hood.
just wondering so I can plan accordingly - building for street legal, this is an unknown.
thanks. |
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Wolfgangdieter
Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2008
Posts: 2001
Location: FL Panhandle
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:36 pm Post subject: Re: gas tank placement question |
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Having the gas tank up front adds 80# over the front axle were 75% of braking is done. Without that weight the front will lift too.
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CMC '57 Porsche Speedster Replica and Dolphin boat tailed full pan VW MOD-T Street Buggy |
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BL3Manx
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2006
Posts: 6768
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:57 pm Post subject: Re: gas tank placement question |
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The strength/quality of fiberglass buggy bodies varies widely from flimsy to seaworthy. Even so, if you put the tank under the hood, the front of the body and front of the gas tank should always be supported by steel braces. This thread shows several that have been used.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6017934
Regarding fiberglass dune buggy safety, at its very best, its the the safest motorcycle you'll ever ride.
I know of no specific federal fiberglass dune buggy design laws. Automotive equipment laws are basically left to the state and vary by state. I've heard of some states which won't register any fiberglass dune buggies but I don't recall seeing any state laws which are specific to fiberglass dune buggy design.
Lots of people put tanks in the rear "seat" area. We know you're upgrading your rear brakes so the additional rear weight shouldn't be an issue.
Last edited by BL3Manx on Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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joescoolcustoms
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: gas tank placement question |
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Check for local laws. Like if your state requires a Motor Vehicle Inspection.
I prefer my fuel up front for the handling characteristics, but each buggy reflects the owner, so, build it like you want it.
Cons of rear seat tank:
Exposed to sunlight and may heat fuel expanding it more and vent issues may come about when full.
Can spill fuel in area where you are riding, onto anything you are carrying or fuel fumes.
No room for rear passengers.
Pros of rear seat mounted tank:
Lightens up front for wheelie master.
Easy to service as needed.
Can polish or customize tank for additional bling factor.
No room for rear passengers.
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Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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allthefineprint
Samba Member
Joined: March 21, 2016
Posts: 91
Location: Perished, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: gas tank placement question |
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| joescoolcustoms wrote: |
Check for local laws. Like if your state requires a Motor Vehicle Inspection.
I prefer my fuel up front for the handling characteristics, but each buggy reflects the owner, so, build it like you want it.
Cons of rear seat tank:
Exposed to sunlight and may heat fuel expanding it more and vent issues may come about when full.
Can spill fuel in area where you are riding, onto anything you are carrying or fuel fumes.
No room for rear passengers.
Pros of rear seat mounted tank:
Lightens up front for wheelie master.
Easy to service as needed.
Can polish or customize tank for additional bling factor.
No room for rear passengers. |
thank you for your help with this - and your personal attention to what I've got going on. I've been flooding the forums (or so I feel) to figure out what I've gotten myself into.
I really thought I'd just buy this lot of vw stuff and be able to toss something together, but these things are totally different than anything I've worked on - fun, but I need education far more than what Haynes can offer.
I'm going to start a build page soon... as soon as I'm done with the planning... and get this thing moving.
thanks again everyone! |
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joescoolcustoms
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:11 pm Post subject: Re: gas tank placement question |
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A wrench to throw into your building plans:
Anything you don't like can be changed later to suit you.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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allthefineprint
Samba Member
Joined: March 21, 2016
Posts: 91
Location: Perished, Mi
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:47 am Post subject: Re: gas tank placement question |
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| joescoolcustoms wrote: |
A wrench to throw into your building plans:
Anything you don't like can be changed later to suit you. |
ah yes, anything can be changed... but as your signature implies - I'd rather finish correctly than scrap for money later. besides, if you want to define "project" it needs to have a start and a stop date.... I'm a pmp so I'm literally writing scope, budget, risks and schedule for my build. yes, I'm weird. |
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tgodber
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2004
Posts: 410
Location: Okanagan Falls B.C. Canada
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:46 am Post subject: Re: gas tank placement question |
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I think planning is great. But there are lots of really successful builders on here.
who have lots of great help to give. ( I don't include myself in that category)
Sometimes you need to just do it. Trust the German engineering. I have not had a wheel fall off yet. I haven't needed 4 wheel disc brakes. My gas tank is in the front like Mr Meyers planned it.
Have fun with it. Good luck.
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My wife said I never listen to her.
Or something like that! |
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Q-Dog
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 8878
Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 11:59 am Post subject: Re: gas tank placement question |
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Here's a little food for thought. My buggy (with the tank up front) rides and handles much better with a full tank of gas than with an empty tank. The handling is so different that I have contemplated adding weight to the front of the car just to make the front tires stick better. The car is quite easy to lock up the front wheels under hard braking with a full gas tank, but the problem is much worse when the tank is near empty.
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Brian
'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle |
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allthefineprint
Samba Member
Joined: March 21, 2016
Posts: 91
Location: Perished, Mi
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: gas tank placement question |
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| Q-Dog wrote: |
| Here's a little food for thought. My buggy (with the tank up front) rides and handles much better with a full tank of gas than with an empty tank. The handling is so different that I have contemplated adding weight to the front of the car just to make the front tires stick better. The car is quite easy to lock up the front wheels under hard braking with a full gas tank, but the problem is much worse when the tank is near empty. |
i'll have to get a pic posted of where the hole is on the hood that I have, it's in a terrible spot, right over the chine of the hood - I don't know if I can get a tank to fit the hole and even a gas cap to fit over the angle - if I have to fill that hole, I'm not drilling another one... |
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KsM715
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2016
Posts: 12
Location: St George, KS
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 6:04 am Post subject: Re: gas tank placement question |
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| I'm in the planning stage also and also thinking of putting the tank in the back. I plan on enclosing it somewhat so it's not in direct sunlight but to offset the weight issue I'm contemplating fabbing up something to put the battery up where the tank used to sit. ( I want a smooth hood, I don't like the filler poking thru) |
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jspbtown
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 5265
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:20 am Post subject: Re: gas tank placement question |
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| Quote: |
| Sometimes you need to just do it. |
Yes...paralysis by analysis. It derails many a project.
As people have said...putting a tank there is not the "wrong" thing to do. Some say no, some say "whatever" and some say sure. When you get advice like that it then comes down to your own personal choice.
Now if you posted that you were thinking of using a urethane steering coupler you would get huge "NO!" from people that you should listen to.
These are custom crafted, highly individual machines. As long as its not unsafe then feel free to do it.
That being said....on a from scratch project on a used body I would fill any holes on the hood and center the fill on the hood.
I did this on my Deserter:
That might be anyone else's personal taste but it worked for me. Plus you get a gauge for fuel level. |
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tgodber
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2004
Posts: 410
Location: Okanagan Falls B.C. Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:36 am Post subject: Re: gas tank placement question |
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Both of my projects had the fuel filler in the front corner. Moved the filler on the tank to the back and repaired the hole in the hood and cut a new hole.
I would rather do that than have a fuel tank right behind my seat. My choice.
Everyone has their own priorities.
I like the look of the fuel filler in the hood.
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My wife said I never listen to her.
Or something like that! |
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aquavette
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2007
Posts: 185
Location: Argyle, TX.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: gas tank placement question |
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| KsM715 wrote: |
| I'm in the planning stage also and also thinking of putting the tank in the back. I plan on enclosing it somewhat so it's not in direct sunlight but to offset the weight issue I'm contemplating fabbing up something to put the battery up where the tank used to sit. ( I want a smooth hood, I don't like the filler poking thru) |
I'm feelin' it...
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tgodber
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2004
Posts: 410
Location: Okanagan Falls B.C. Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: gas tank placement question |
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Nice job. Will you have access your battery after the hood is attached?
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My wife said I never listen to her.
Or something like that! |
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aquavette
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2007
Posts: 185
Location: Argyle, TX.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: gas tank placement question |
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| tgodber wrote: |
| Nice job. Will you have access your battery after the hood is attached? |
Remote terminals will address any 12v access, but battery replacement will require hood removal. (Battery in photo will be replaced with a new one prior to final assembly.) |
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MrGoodtunes
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2012
Posts: 1056
Location: South Florida
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:38 pm Post subject: Re: gas tank placement question |
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I'm very happy with my choice of a rear tank location 40 years (and a couple hundred thousand miles) ago, when planning for a spare tire and bumper up front. Tank is directly under the back window ledge:
With tank as high as mine, and carbs as low as my Type 3 dual Brosols. I have found it necessary to install a fuel line shut-off valve, because gravity/weight of a full tank is enough to sometimes cause over-night seepage at carb inlet valve(s). Sure wish I could find a 12v solenoid operated shut-off! |
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KsM715
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2016
Posts: 12
Location: St George, KS
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: gas tank placement question |
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| aquavette wrote: |
| KsM715 wrote: |
| I'm in the planning stage also and also thinking of putting the tank in the back. I plan on enclosing it somewhat so it's not in direct sunlight but to offset the weight issue I'm contemplating fabbing up something to put the battery up where the tank used to sit. ( I want a smooth hood, I don't like the filler poking thru) |
I'm feelin' it...
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Exactly what I as thinking of. I want to install some remote jumper cable hook up like they use on tow trucks so I was thinking the same set up would work for the buggy battery. Plus I have no dash in mine and plan to mount dash, steering and windshield via the roll cage so removing the hood every so often should not be a big pain |
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overdue
Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2015
Posts: 48
Location: so cal
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: gas tank placement question |
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i like the back |
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A E Numan
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2006
Posts: 242
Location: Portland Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:34 am Post subject: Re: gas tank placement question |
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My tank is mounted in the back, on a support that is part of the cage and is tied in to the shock towers. There is no strain on the body and the top of the tank is slightly below the top of the body so I could put a cover over the back of the car when and if I decided to hide the gas tank.
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