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Improving FI harness or reinventing the wheel? (completed)
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aerosurfer
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:51 am    Post subject: Improving FI harness or reinventing the wheel? (completed) Reply with quote

So after my cold start valve caught and burned my near perfect harness as summed up here.....

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=652223

... My spare harness is very brittle and didn't have the same clean fitment it got me thinking of recreating my own harness with different routing. I had planned to do this awhile ago via this thread...

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570114&highlight=harness

The problem being I never liked how the harness runs fat to behind the breather and then makes a split and doubles back. It takes up a lot of space, I always felt like I needed to manhandle the routing back to the AFM and 1/2 injectors. It makes for crowded space routing the fuel lines. Behind the dizzy the 3 connectors seem to be fighting for room against the vacuum can as well. I know Kyle automotive rebuilds them with good reviews but still seems like you end up with the same crowded mess only newer.

My thought was to route the harness under the air cleaner and across and along the firewall. I could reduce the overall diameter of wires by having the loom split earlier for the AFM and 1/2 side as well as running grounds, TTS, AAR, CSV and coil wire coming from the firewall running rearward to their respective locations, and the final ends of the loom going to their spots on the left side.

I started drawing this up and taking measurements and just happen to find on the Vanagon forum someone did this route with an AC Vanagon....

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=337593&highlight=harness

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I really like what was done, and it cleans up the mess between the plenum, dizzy, and breather. The above harness is slightly different than the 76-79 federal Bus, but the key components and their locations are essentially the same. This routing also seems like it would keep more heat fatigue away from the harness.

If using the same gauge wire is there any issues with the added length you might add over the course of any of the wiring? Just need to get the 18g wire, and various heat shrinks to start this off. Using the diagram on page 41 of the AFC guide as a build schematic
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Rebuild your own FI Harness..My Harness

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secretsubmariner
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:22 am    Post subject: Re: Improving FI harness or reinventing the wheel? Reply with quote

Dude,

http://kyleautomotivespecialties.com/products
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aerosurfer
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:27 am    Post subject: Re: Improving FI harness or reinventing the wheel? Reply with quote

secretsubmariner wrote:
Dude,

http://kyleautomotivespecialties.com/products


Missed the third paragraph.....
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:30 am    Post subject: Re: Improving FI harness or reinventing the wheel? Reply with quote

Call Kyle and tell him what you want. He can do anything.
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secretsubmariner
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:51 am    Post subject: Re: Improving FI harness or reinventing the wheel? Reply with quote

aerosurfer wrote:
secretsubmariner wrote:
Dude,

http://kyleautomotivespecialties.com/products


Missed the third paragraph.....


Eh, yeah I skimmed it. Whatever.

I just recognized your issue from your thread, which I read yesterday I think. I couldn't remember the name of the guy or the place at the time. I'm sure he could do it however you want, especially if you have a core or two to send his way. He's really nice, I've emailed him a few times. Maybe give it a shot? He needs cores so he can re-use connectors and stuff.

I'd rather pay a pro to do this kind of thing instead of doing it myself
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1978 Champagne Edition II (Mar)
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Stuartzickefoose
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Improving FI harness or reinventing the wheel? Reply with quote

Just emailed Kyle...might get one done up for my bus......hmmm..
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secretsubmariner
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Improving FI harness or reinventing the wheel? Reply with quote

Stuartzickefoose wrote:
Just emailed Kyle...might get one done up for my bus......hmmm..


I'd like a red one for the ol' 'pagne but I got bigger kittens to tie up in a bag and throw in the river for now
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1978 Champagne Edition II (Mar)
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1978 Champagne Edition II (Jan - sold)
1978 Westfalia Auto Deluxe (sold)

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scrivyscriv
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Improving FI harness or reinventing the wheel? Reply with quote

Here's something to get you started:


https://bulkwire.com/ptfe-high-temperature-stranded-wire


I say go for it. Some disagree, but I think VW really set the bar low on their wiring (Did VW make the FI harness? Anyone?) and some of it could stand to be significantly improved.

Just please don't use that awful corrugated split loom, it looks like a 5 minute Auto-Zone hack. If you find a good source for the PVC conduit, share it!

EDIT: Just found this deal on eBay for teflon wire: http://www.ebay.com/itm/18-AWG-Gauge-Silver-Plated...SwwpdW7JEC
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aerosurfer
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Improving FI harness or reinventing the wheel? Reply with quote

scrivyscriv wrote:
Here's something to get you started:


https://bulkwire.com/ptfe-high-temperature-stranded-wire


I say go for it. Some disagree, but I think VW really set the bar low on their wiring (Did VW make the FI harness? Anyone?) and some of it could stand to be significantly improved.

Just please don't use that awful corrugated split loom, it looks like a 5 minute Auto-Zone hack. If you find a good source for the PVC conduit, share it!

EDIT: Just found this deal on eBay for teflon wire: http://www.ebay.com/itm/18-AWG-Gauge-Silver-Plated...SwwpdW7JEC


I agree about the split loom. I really like what madmax78 Did with his covering in the $50 thread above. I really agree they didn't spend to much R&D money in harness design.

Surprised about the reactions so far, if I don't go to Kyle, I'm a typical cheap Bay window owner, if I create a good, improved harness I'm innovative to the hobby. I guess the pressure is on, hope I can deliver something worthwhile in the near future. I won't be the first to try, and he is not the only one who can.
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72 Sportsmobile (sold)
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scrivyscriv
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Improving FI harness or reinventing the wheel? Reply with quote

Found an eBay seller in Taiwan supplying several pieces for a bus harness, seller ID coyote243543. Not affiliated with him or the products in any way. He's got FI plugs and the PVC flex wire conduit in multiple sizes, including a glass-lined heat resistant style.
I'll be buying a few things from him when I build my Beetle FI harness.
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1971 Riviera small pop-top
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Improving FI harness or reinventing the wheel? Reply with quote

aerosurfer wrote:
scrivyscriv wrote:
Here's something to get you started:


https://bulkwire.com/ptfe-high-temperature-stranded-wire


I say go for it. Some disagree, but I think VW really set the bar low on their wiring (Did VW make the FI harness? Anyone?) and some of it could stand to be significantly improved.

Just please don't use that awful corrugated split loom, it looks like a 5 minute Auto-Zone hack. If you find a good source for the PVC conduit, share it!

EDIT: Just found this deal on eBay for teflon wire: http://www.ebay.com/itm/18-AWG-Gauge-Silver-Plated...SwwpdW7JEC


I agree about the split loom. I really like what madmax78 Did with his covering in the $50 thread above. I really agree they didn't spend to much R&D money in harness design.

Surprised about the reactions so far, if I don't go to Kyle, I'm a typical cheap Bay window owner, if I create a good, improved harness I'm innovative to the hobby. I guess the pressure is on, hope I can deliver something worthwhile in the near future. I won't be the first to try, and he is not the only one who can.


I have never thought much of the routing of the original harness. I say go for it.
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Stuartzickefoose
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Improving FI harness or reinventing the wheel? Reply with quote

Just talked with him on the phone...

Looks like he already mods the harnesses because he things that the stock way is stupid too...haha

He has three on the shelf brand new no exchange (he's got all new connectors sourced out now) for 399$

Worth an attempt yourself but up to you on how much your times worth. Super nice guy and knowledgeable enough I'd trust his work. Plus it sounds like he's got little upgrades like numbers and colored wire to make testing etc a whole lot easier!

I'd say try it yourself but he's done it already so depends really on what your times worth and your budget. My harness works for now but if I do another engine build and don't swap to H2O then I'd get a new one from him.
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1980 Westy~Corkey

206-841-7324
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Tom Powell
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Improving FI harness or reinventing the wheel? Reply with quote

scrivyscriv wrote:
... Just please don't use that awful corrugated split loom, it looks like a 5 minute Auto-Zone hack. If you find a good source for the PVC conduit, share it! ...


http://www.ebay.com/bhp/cloth-wire-loom

Aloha
tp
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THall
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:54 am    Post subject: Re: Improving FI harness or reinventing the wheel? Reply with quote

aerosurfer wrote:
My thought was to route the harness under the air cleaner and across and along the firewall.


I'm running a Kyle harness and have it routed this way; along the firewall side. Worked out quite nicely...and I'm very happy with his work.
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aerosurfer
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 8:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Improving FI harness or reinventing the wheel? Reply with quote

Well the Harness is a success! I really enjoyed the challenges building it too. The best advice would be to start studying the schematic on page 41 of the AFC guide. Its intimidating at first but once you break down what you have to do in sections (grounds, AFM wiring, Injectors, etc) it becomes very manageable. I used a myriad of shrink wrapping on the various wire sections.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I was able to poach and salvage all the connectors off of my burned up harness, and a beattle harness I had lying around. Ok lets begin....

I wanted to lengthen the harness to route under the air cleaner and over the firewall so this had to be an organic lengthening, so lots of string measurement and padded length to some of the wires, my biggest fear was coming up short and having to make an extension, or back pedaling and undoing sheathing.

I used wire numbers and clear shrink wrap at all the ends. this is a must and kept things very easy to organize
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


As I went, I would use zip ties and thinner shrink sections to keep things straight. initially the toughest parts were some of the U-Turns the wiring for the 1/2 injectors and AFM pin 36 & 39 make within the harness.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Multiple layers of shrink gave me the sheathing hopefully needed and protection to last at the splits. Some I shrunk fully others I left more flexibility in the layers. I know it will eventually shrink to its permanent size but by then the wires will hopefully create their memory of placement.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Completed with all the coverings. YAAAY

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Install for now used 1 inch wire ties adhered to the firewall. If they prove not to stick or I dont like them, i may use screw in wire ties, but really dont want to punch holes if I don't need to.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


At some point when I was troubleshooting with the last harness or during removal of the burned one, I broke a wire on my series resistor. I flipped my replacement to hang to the left of the Double relay as that seemed to create less stress on the harness and be a more natural fit. I plan to put Liquid tape where the wire meets the resistor end for added support and protection.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Under the air cleaner, I attached the new harness to the main wiring to keep it away from any edges.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


First start was nearly as exciting as my rebuild break-in 4 years ago. Before I turned it over, I Ohm-ed everything out, per the AFC guide. While not surprising, I was certainly relieved everything checked out in spec. It fired right up and is running perfectly.

All in all I used about 110 feet of wire. I had less waste than I figured, but could have saved a even more with tighter measurements. I was able to salvage some original wiring and ends on a few of the short sections. My biggest fear is some sort of chafing and rub through so I will be watching everything closely. Also can still pull the motor with nothing more than clipping a few zip ties as my only change from original.

Now as far as my time and money vs. a Kyle Harness: Totally worth it! I have a new respect for what he does and doing this and making it look good. Time will tell if mine holds up, but it will be easy to service, if necessary. It cost me just under $100 for everything. I bought plenty of extra Shrink, wire mounts, and wire connectors to have lots of wiggle room. I had to stop and order 3/4" shrink after I was about halfway through so that set me back a few days and some lost time, but if I had to do over with everything in stock, I could build it in about 5 hours or less. This is a very capable project... but proper tools are a must.
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Rebuild your own FI Harness..My Harness

77 Westy 2.0L Rockin and Rolling Resto!

72 Sportsmobile (sold)
79 Tran$porter... Parts car money machine (gone)


Last edited by aerosurfer on Mon May 16, 2016 9:18 pm; edited 3 times in total
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khalimadeath
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 8:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Improving FI harness or reinventing the wheel? (completed) Reply with quote

Nice work!
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otiswesty
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:49 am    Post subject: Re: Improving FI harness or reinventing the wheel? (completed) Reply with quote

That looks great. I asked Kyle to build me an OEM style harness like you have there and he said there would be an additional charge, like $700 total.
Doh! Confused
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