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Ahnendorp B.A.S. 1-2-3 Bluetooth Distributor
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bugguy1967
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:31 pm    Post subject: Ahnendorp B.A.S. 1-2-3 Bluetooth Distributor Reply with quote

Thought this was a very interesting product that still looks stock. One thing that I didn't see listed is that you can shut down the distributor from your smartphone so the car wont start for security.

http://www.ahnendorp.com/advanced_search_result.ph...at=0&=
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Ahnendorp B.A.S. 1-2-3 Bluetooth Distributor Reply with quote

Neat! One thing I would like to have is some kind of bluetooth or wi-fi device that gathers all the engine data and transmits it via wi-fi to a cell phone ap or a tablet that runs an instrument panel app of some kind.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 1:03 am    Post subject: Re: Ahnendorp B.A.S. 1-2-3 Bluetooth Distributor Reply with quote

https://youtu.be/Ev0fsVFloW4

It even has an immobilizer.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:29 am    Post subject: Re: Ahnendorp B.A.S. 1-2-3 Bluetooth Distributor Reply with quote

Very cool.
Very Pricey.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:22 am    Post subject: Re: Ahnendorp B.A.S. 1-2-3 Bluetooth Distributor Reply with quote

Finally. A device that has the programmabilty of a computerized ignition, while still retaining all of the timing slop and other disadvantages of a conventional distributor.

If you really want to improve your ignition, use a crank triggered ignition.



Danwvw wrote:
Neat! One thing I would like to have is some kind of bluetooth or wi-fi device that gathers all the engine data and transmits it via wi-fi to a cell phone ap or a tablet that runs an instrument panel app of some kind.


A Megajolt ignition system will display an instrument panel and engine data via a serial port on your computer or tablet.



If you absolutely must have wireless, a simple adapter can be connected.

wi-fi :
http://www.usconverters.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=404

bluetooth :
http://www.usconverters.com/serial-bluetooth-adapter


Link


Last edited by Luft kühl on Sat Jun 18, 2016 12:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:09 am    Post subject: Re: Ahnendorp B.A.S. 1-2-3 Bluetooth Distributor Reply with quote

I predict that within the next 5 years auto makers will go wireless for almost all auto wiring. Really if you used relays for each light, horn, throttle control it doesn't matter what there is a driver, there is technology already available to make that happen. Just the 12 volt wire would be all that was needed. They will probably want to complicate it though. There will at least be a shielded signal wire and it will not be on a Wi-Fi or BlueTooth carrier rather something the manufacture comes up with. It probably won't be standardized between manufacturers either. Well unless, I don't know, the whole technology evolves out of third party manufacturing at a lower cost than auto manufactures can make it themselves.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:29 am    Post subject: Re: Ahnendorp B.A.S. 1-2-3 Bluetooth Distributor Reply with quote

You are little late.

Almost all auto manufacturers already have these types of systems. Chrysler (Uconnect), GM (MyLink), etc. And they are already being hacked.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: Ahnendorp B.A.S. 1-2-3 Bluetooth Distributor Reply with quote

Luft kühl wrote:
Finally. A device that has the programmabilty of a computerized ignition, while still retaining all of the timing slop and other disadvantages of a conventional distributor.

If you really want to improve your ignition, use a crank triggered ignition.


I could´nt have put it better. It is getting increasingly popular over here, but it still only performs in the range of a Chinese copy 009. I really can´t see the advantage in it apart from the fact that you can adjust it with out getting your fingers dirty.

T
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 12:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Ahnendorp B.A.S. 1-2-3 Bluetooth Distributor Reply with quote

Alstrup wrote:
Luft kühl wrote:
Finally. A device that has the programmabilty of a computerized ignition, while still retaining all of the timing slop and other disadvantages of a conventional distributor.

If you really want to improve your ignition, use a crank triggered ignition.


I could´nt have put it better. It is getting increasingly popular over here, but it still only performs in the range of a Chinese copy 009. I really can´t see the advantage in it apart from the fact that you can adjust it with out getting your fingers dirty.

T


I think this criticism is a little unfair and even a little misleading. To say this would mean that many ignition products designed for a purpose are comparable to Chinese 009s. Many people like and use the Magnaspark Digital or even a Black Box or any of the OE distributors sold by Mr 010. Not everybody wants to install crank triggered ignition. It would be like saying the whole air cooled VW engine is like a badly designed Subaru engine which it may be but some people like it nonetheless.

What maybe useful is to understand what your actual criticism of the actual distributor is so that they can make an informed decision about whether to buy one for their needs.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 12:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Ahnendorp B.A.S. 1-2-3 Bluetooth Distributor Reply with quote

Bluetooth....is a horrendously un-secure system.

There have been numerous National news reports ....and information from auto manufacturers about the issues of blue tooth security....just since last summer.

Blue tooth hacking on modern vehicles is one of the mst prevalent ways certain modern high end cars are now being stolen.

Of your blue tooth in modern car is not encrypted.....one can hack your car via access through your cars blue tooth phone node broadcast. Since many items are cross connected with entertainment, instruments and navigation for logic and diagnostics........thieves can access the main ECU....start and lock your car and change your codes.

In july of 2015...Wired magazine did a live test at highway speed and shut down a jeep.....in motion with a driver in it......via the internet.....through the on board bluetooth.

No.....car manufacturers are not rapidly working toward wireless control of primary car systems. They may be experimenting.....but its for accessory control and diagnostics only.

With any over the air transmission of data.....any.....the risk of data corruption and jamming is just huge. Not to mention the risk of interference with data from high voltage sources like ignition coils.

Shut down systems......fine.....but remember unless they are encrypted. ....they can just as easily be used for start up. Ray
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 12:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Ahnendorp B.A.S. 1-2-3 Bluetooth Distributor Reply with quote

If it was as good as the Magnaspark or the Black box system I would have had no beef with it. But it is not. If you install it on an old Triumph or MG it is an improvement.
I have seen and tested several (5 I think) ACVW´s where we GAINED power and improved idle quality by ditching the 123 and install a simple Pertonix Billet or an old german 009. Food for thought.
What good is all the fancy electronics when the basics are not OK.
If you are affraid of getting your fingers dirty, then yes it might have an audience there but if you are looking for best driveability and performance "on a budget" which is what they claim, more or less, there are cheaper solutions that does the job better... But people, especially the young genereration, gets drawn in because, - Oh, we can adjust it from our Iphone or Android, COOL!

Good point Ray.

T
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 12:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Ahnendorp B.A.S. 1-2-3 Bluetooth Distributor Reply with quote

donnmon wrote:
Alstrup wrote:
Luft kühl wrote:
Finally. A device that has the programmabilty of a computerized ignition, while still retaining all of the timing slop and other disadvantages of a conventional distributor.

If you really want to improve your ignition, use a crank triggered ignition.


I could´nt have put it better. It is getting increasingly popular over here, but it still only performs in the range of a Chinese copy 009. I really can´t see the advantage in it apart from the fact that you can adjust it with out getting your fingers dirty.

T


I think this criticism is a little unfair and even a little misleading. To say this would mean that many ignition products designed for a purpose are comparable to Chinese 009s. Many people like and use the Magnaspark Digital or even a Black Box or any of the OE distributors sold by Mr 010. Not everybody wants to install crank triggered ignition. It would be like saying the whole air cooled VW engine is like a badly designed Subaru engine which it may be but some people like it nonetheless.

What maybe useful is to understand what your actual criticism of the actual distributor is so that they can make an informed decision about whether to buy one for their needs.


I would still rather have any of the other distributors you mentioned or crank trigger. The price is just too much for what it offers. You can't deny that any distributor has accuracy issues, that's not criticism, just stating the facts.

-An 010 has that vintage look for cheaper
-any modified stock distributor with Black Box will do what this does performance wise
-CB Magnaspark uses a big cap if you are concerned about cross firing inside the cap
-crank trigger in the same price range will out perform, and can be installed hidden with a setup like thedubshop.net sells. Install a dummy distributor if you want.

If price was cheaper and other products didn't exist yet, maybe it would be a good option. But, with the Black Box at $200 it's easily bypassed and the distributor could be used normally if you address the advance mechanism. With a Pertronix, you can make any distributor electronic for dirt cheap.

I'll be using a Bluetooth setup with my crank trigger for tuning because in my single cab all my wiring is in the treasure chest. Running more wires would require drilling more holes, which I'm not willing to do. So, if I'm going to buy a Bluetooth setup, I'd rather it be universal to work with megasquirt, Megajolt, etc. If one portion of this 123 distributor acts up, the whole thing is dead in the water. You can't just replace the Bluetooth or ignition module and then you must deal with tech support from Europe? Alstrup lives there, dyno tunes engines and even he can't see the real benefit.

Early 1900's accuracy, 70's control module technology, 2000's wireless technology with 2016 crank trigger pricing makes no sense to me. It's an engine part that showed up late to the party, or even when the party is over.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Ahnendorp B.A.S. 1-2-3 Bluetooth Distributor Reply with quote

I would agree that on a programmable ignition system.....that to do the actual programming and tuning.....bluetooth would be just perfect. It could be a simple app that runs from phone of laptop.

However.....as I mentioned....not as a security feature other than an emergency kill switch .....also as others have mentioned....say in the case of AFTER a theft or car-jacking to stop the car for recovery. Not likely a fast opportunity thief is going to get busy unhacking your bluetooth kill switch to get started again.

As a security feature to PREVENT theft .....without serious incryption......its worthless.

Also there needs to be a GPS function in it as a bluetooth tuning app.....to make sure the vehicle is stationary when inputting or changing ignition curve and advance changes or perusing data. We have enough total dumbasses texting while driving already. Ray
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Ahnendorp B.A.S. 1-2-3 Bluetooth Distributor Reply with quote

Alstrup wrote:
If it was as good as the Magnaspark or the Black box system I would have had no beef with it. But it is not. If you install it on an old Triumph or MG it is an improvement.
I have seen and tested several (5 I think) ACVW´s where we GAINED power and improved idle quality by ditching the 123 and install a simple Pertonix Billet or an old german 009. Food for thought.
What good is all the fancy electronics when the basics are not OK.
If you are affraid of getting your fingers dirty, then yes it might have an audience there but if you are looking for best driveability and performance "on a budget" which is what they claim, more or less, there are cheaper solutions that does the job better... But people, especially the young genereration, gets drawn in because, - Oh, we can adjust it from our Iphone or Android, COOL!

Good point Ray.

T


Hi Alstrup

Can you please let me know which actual 123 units you tested, was it the one the original poster was talking about, the programmable bluetooth one, the non bluetooth programmable one, or one of the older 'fixed' curve units?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:47 am    Post subject: Re: Ahnendorp B.A.S. 1-2-3 Bluetooth Distributor Reply with quote

I/we have tried both the 123 and the 123tune. The bluetooth has the same internals. They all suffer from the same flaws, unless it has been rectified within the last 6-7 months, which I doubt. - The problem with the thing is that they have a "selfthinking" ignition contoller built in the software, which moves the timing around to steady the engine rpm at idle and supposidly it should even out as you increase rpm. The fact is that the ignition controller makes the engine run worse at idle and the "adjuster" keeps moving the timing around at high rpm too. That results in you having to back the timing off 2-3 degrees from perfect because the "ignition window" is 4-5 degrees instead of maybe 2 to 3 at worst on a decent distributor. 2 degrees off perfect timing is somewhere between 4 & 10 hp on a medium size medium tune engine.
Like I wrote earlier, it is an improvement on most older British cars, because their distributors are generally very sloppy. I would never use one on an Alfa Romeo or similar cars because their distributors are usually good to begin with.
We had a Triumph TR6 in once, where we tried stock, then a 123, then a Megajolt ignition. with the stock distributor we pulled 189 hp and we had serius detonation at 6300 rpm. With the 123 we gained 6 hp to 195 hp and better midrange torque and no noticeable detonation at 6500 (rpm limt) Then we installed the Megajolt and was able to go right up to the limit. The engine wanted more fuel too and we gained 20 Nm torque at 2500 slightly decending to 10 Nm better peak, and 202 hp @ 6100 rpm.
On the last ACVW I had my fingers in, which was a 2165 I managed to go from 164 hp @ 5900 to 169 hp @ 6100 just by swopping from a 123tune to a simple Pertronix billet. But of course I had to get my fingers dirty Rolling Eyes
T
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 4:32 am    Post subject: Re: Ahnendorp B.A.S. 1-2-3 Bluetooth Distributor Reply with quote

Alstrup wrote:
I/we have tried both the 123 and the 123tune. The bluetooth has the same internals. They all suffer from the same flaws, unless it has been rectified within the last 6-7 months, which I doubt. - The problem with the thing is that they have a "selfthinking" ignition contoller built in the software, which moves the timing around to steady the engine rpm at idle and supposidly it should even out as you increase rpm. The fact is that the ignition controller makes the engine run worse at idle and the "adjuster" keeps moving the timing around at high rpm too. That results in you having to back the timing off 2-3 degrees from perfect because the "ignition window" is 4-5 degrees instead of maybe 2 to 3 at worst on a decent distributor. 2 degrees off perfect timing is somewhere between 4 & 10 hp on a medium size medium tune engine.
Like I wrote earlier, it is an improvement on most older British cars, because their distributors are generally very sloppy. I would never use one on an Alfa Romeo or similar cars because their distributors are usually good to begin with.
We had a Triumph TR6 in once, where we tried stock, then a 123, then a Megajolt ignition. with the stock distributor we pulled 189 hp and we had serius detonation at 6300 rpm. With the 123 we gained 6 hp to 195 hp and better midrange torque and no noticeable detonation at 6500 (rpm limt) Then we installed the Megajolt and was able to go right up to the limit. The engine wanted more fuel too and we gained 20 Nm torque at 2500 slightly decending to 10 Nm better peak, and 202 hp @ 6100 rpm.
On the last ACVW I had my fingers in, which was a 2165 I managed to go from 164 hp @ 5900 to 169 hp @ 6100 just by swopping from a 123tune to a simple Pertronix billet. But of course I had to get my fingers dirty Rolling Eyes
T


Thanks so much Alstrup, this is really useful information. I will contact the manufacturer and see what thet they say about this. I don't think that their product is aimed at the performance market or those looking for fine margins so I guess they would not have much to say about that. Presumably the self thinking thing is the 'variable dwell constant current, fully autom' feature. sounds like this is more of a hindrance than a help.

Do you have any thoughts about the build quality of the 123Tune?

Thanks again, I really appreciate your time.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 7:25 am    Post subject: Re: Ahnendorp B.A.S. 1-2-3 Bluetooth Distributor Reply with quote

made in coperation with vw professionals.....??? wow what a sails pitch. the price alone is enough to skeer me away, and I dont have blue teeth so...Im kinda lost. but it sounds like the next best thing.....have you seen the new rotery engines?? peanut roter in a triangle housing fires 3x as many times per revolution . weighs 4 pounds powers a gocart just fine.what will they think of next a woman that ......oh never mind it's fathers day and we couldent be a father without that woman. thanks woman for all you do and some you dont!!! Wink
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:46 am    Post subject: Re: Ahnendorp B.A.S. 1-2-3 Bluetooth Distributor Reply with quote

I think BAS was in on the bluetooth upgrade. Maybe Gerd Weiser too, as he is an avid user of the product.
We actually approached the company about 3½ years ago, where we pointed out that there was an issue. We got met by the standard answer that "that was the first time they had ever heard of that" And that they did not consider it a problem since "it was supposed to do that to improve idle stability" - well, if it was to improve idle stability based on rpm difference alone, the software needs to be MUCH faster. Like 10 times or so. Even then I would consider it a challenge. Also, I do not know if they have changed that in the last batches, but the "drive" is too long, because it is a universal product that fits more than one brand of engine, and has to be shimmed up from the case to have a sturdy base so to speak. Otherwise it litterally "hangs" in the clamp. That´s not good in my book.
To me the software needs a lot of tlc before it gets interesting for anything other than the lower segment of engine parts and building. So I would personally rather save my money and use something that we know works well.

T
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:01 am    Post subject: Re: Ahnendorp B.A.S. 1-2-3 Bluetooth Distributor Reply with quote

I heard back from the manufacturer but the mystery deepens.

They say there is no 'idle stabilser' on the 123Tune and the variable dwell timing is designed to keep the coil current at or around 3.4A but should not affect the timing events.

I am not sure where we go from here. I have never had such problems with this distributor on a well built drive but then I don't have a dyno and Alstrup's experience.

What I will say is that I like the product, in my opinion it is not designed or (to my knowledge) generally marketed as a performance product but it works for me at least.

There are some nice things about the 123Tune that are of assistance to those without access to tuning equipment or expertise. It is pretty much plug and play which I guess works works well for those that don't want to get their fingers dirty. I get that it is expensive but then I don't have to pay those kind of prices.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:18 am    Post subject: Re: Ahnendorp B.A.S. 1-2-3 Bluetooth Distributor Reply with quote

donnmon wrote:

They say there is no 'idle stabilser' on the 123Tune and the variable dwell timing is designed to keep the coil current at or around 3.4A but should not affect the timing events.


The variable dwell will affect idle rpm. It will also affect emissions. That is a minor in our world, but noticeable nevertheless.
donnmon wrote:

What I will say is that I like the product, in my opinion it is not designed or (to my knowledge) generally marketed as a performance product but it works for me at least.

There are some nice things about the 123Tune that are of assistance to those without access to tuning equipment or expertise. It is pretty much plug and play which I guess works works well for those that don't want to get their fingers dirty. I get that it is expensive but then I don't have to pay those kind of prices.


That is exactly the buyer segment they are going for, and with great luck it seems. If the goal is to get ones engine to run decent, then I´m sure a lot of people can get some positive use out of it. But if you´re chasing power and best possible driveability then it is not the product to choose.
From day one I have heard the phrase "You can adjust it from the outside, COOL!" more than I care to remember. That seems to be a large moving ground for buying it. I thought it was a neat feature too, until I tried it. Wink

T

PS. If you already have one of these, try and hook your timing gun to the engine when warm and let it idle. Then you will see that the timing jumps around in an approx. 5 degree window. Then notice the idle. After that you take a regular 205 or 009 distributor in good working condition, install it (of course make sure the pinion drive tolerance is correct. Start the engine up again, setting it at the same static idle timing. Notice what happens.
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