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Lemförder Ball Joint fasteners drilled incorrectly???!!!!
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iliketowalk
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:25 pm    Post subject: Lemförder Ball Joint fasteners drilled incorrectly???!!!! Reply with quote

Moderator note: Title edited to reflect thread content.

I have trouble believing that Lemförder would put their name on these, but the boxes look legit and they were bought from a reputable dealer which supplies many of the european mechanics and part houses in America.

Edit: In case it's not obvious, see picture 3. Those bolts should be straight up and down relative to the mounting surface.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


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Appears to be missing the trademark owl.

Have reached out to LF/ZF, not going to hold my breath...
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Last edited by iliketowalk on Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:28 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Chinese Lemförder UBJ Suck (Counterfit?) Reply with quote

Lots of OE parts are made in China now Sad
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iliketowalk
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Chinese Lemförder UBJ Suck (Counterfit?) Reply with quote

I have no problem with quality parts made in China...

Did you catch picture 3? That's the problem. I could have drilled these things better blindfolded.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Chinese Lemförder UBJ Suck (Counterfit?) Reply with quote

Welcome to the edge of the slippery slope...and the global economy... Rolling Eyes Evil or Very Mad

<shrug>
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Chinese Lemförder UBJ Suck (Counterfit?) Reply with quote

This is funny - everyone thinks I'm bitching because they're made in China...

Noooo.

It's because they were threaded between 5-20 degrees off. Both joints.

If someone didn't know what they were doing, or care, you could install these and potentially bend your upper control arm, or risk the bolts breaking while driving and the wheel folding up. This is a serious manufacturing defect.

Take another look.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Chinese Lemförder UBJ Suck (Counterfit?) Reply with quote

Try running a business and needing to rely on parts today to be able to pay the bills. I have had to warranty so many jobs because of faulty parts, things like "good brand" water pumps and clutches that go bad in about a year or 10k mile. I do them over for free to keep the customer happy, nobody reimburses me for parts or labor.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Chinese Lemförder UBJ Suck (Counterfit?) Reply with quote

iliketowalk wrote:
This is funny - everyone thinks I'm bitching because they're made in China...

Noooo.

It's because they were threaded between 5-20 degrees off. Both joints.

If someone didn't know what they were doing, or care, you could install these and potentially bend your upper control arm, or risk the bolts breaking while driving and the wheel folding up. This is a serious manufacturing defect.

Take another look.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


You just need to get a couple bolts 'for holes not square'. See chart - 3rd row, first one:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Chinese Lemförder UBJ Suck (Counterfit?) Reply with quote

iliketowalk wrote:
This is funny - everyone thinks I'm bitching because they're made in China...Noooo

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Subject title says "Chinese Lemförder UBJ Suck (Counterfit?)"

A thread title "China Lemforder Balljoint holes threaded at crazy angles"..... may be a better title. You never really know what members are going to respond to, everybody has an angle. I saw that pic and thought the bolts were just sitting at random in open bores and was probably thinking you should change your transmission oil.

It's strange to see handmade parts today.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Chinese Lemförder UBJ Suck (Counterfit?) Reply with quote

That is gold Andrew.

I was going to follow this flow chart.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Chinese Lemförder UBJ Suck (Counterfit?) Reply with quote

I suggest if they WERE "counterfeit" the box WOULDN'T say China...

Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Chinese Lemförder UBJ Suck (Counterfeit?) Reply with quote

i recommend that you return them if you feel so strongly about safety. one more reason to bring manufacturing out of china, then we can bitch about usa made crap parts.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Chinese Lemförder UBJ Suck (Counterfeit?) Reply with quote

I can't believe how few people are actually grokking this post.

The bolts are threaded in on an angle, not a little one, a huge one. When you tighten these down to the upper control arm, only a very small fraction of the shoulder of the bolt is going to touch. We are not using a feeler gauge here, it's a huge effing gap.

So yeah - maybe I'll return them.

The post was more to demonstrate that even the good brand of parts is susceptible to unbelievably bad QC (on two parts), and that there is a chance that these may be counterfeit parts - so be on the lookout.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Chinese Lemförder UBJ Suck (Counterfeit?) Reply with quote

Maybe this will make it more obvious?

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The red lines should be parallel to the horizontal mounting surface.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Chinese Lemförder UBJ Suck (Counterfeit?) Reply with quote

edited.

To my eye, the (compound?) angles of each set of
threads are not the same at each bolt; the upper faces appear to be at 2
different angles. But then that could be slop in the threads themselves.

When the UCA is torqued to this part, won't the bigger part of the issue be
the the ball socket of UBJ accommodates the incorrect angles determined
by bolt threads thus making the camber/castor/toe hard to set?
i.e. the arm and or flanges at the UBJ won't suffer any ill fate?
Or, will the load at these parts force the UCA to twist, cheese bolt to snap etc?

Neil.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 1:12 am    Post subject: Re: Chinese Lemförder UBJ Suck (Counterfeit?) Reply with quote

I just checked two of the same part I have here, purchased in June off US Ebay from 'Aircooled Treasury'.

Same defect.. They are still offering them for sale so be warned folks !

I did notice the plastic bag the joints were in, had a generic white label with the part number on it, wheras the fasteners were in a bag printed with ZF/Lemforder branding.

I wonder if an unscrupulous person has substituted some genuine ZF joints with cheap ones ?

It'd be interesting to hear from anyone with genuine joints still in the bag, if there's any branding on it.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:26 am    Post subject: Re: Chinese Lemförder UBJ Suck (Counterfit?) Reply with quote

[quote="Andrew A. Libby"]
iliketowalk wrote:


You just need to get a couple bolts 'for holes not square'. See chart - 3rd row, first one:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Andrew, lol, that's awesome. I think I need to make that into a poster Smile ...

Yes, horrible quality with brand names on it. It's all over, Bosch and others all are contracting out to maximize profits and sometimes they ( and us ) get this kind of crap. hand drilled by low priced labour is my guess. Maybe person has a shorter leg than the other or the shop is built on a hillside ?

Hopefully the next set you get are correct or try another batch of lemforders elsewhere. I'd go right to Lemforder and chew their ear off !

Now, lets see what your supplier has to say !
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:29 am    Post subject: Re: Lemförder Ball Joint fasteners drilled incorrectly???!!!! Reply with quote

There have been some counterfeit Lemforder parts being sold. Usual China crap boxed up and sold for a big profit.

Lemforder has a triangle with an owl in it..never saw one with an "L"
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:27 am    Post subject: Re: Lemförder Ball Joint fasteners drilled incorrectly???!!!! Reply with quote

When we speak about parts houses, are we speaking of Northside Imports?

Fake parts are a real problem, no joke. Your safety is on the line.


https://www.zf.com/brands/en_de/lemfoerder/technol...upport.jsp

PLEASE contact Lemforder directly.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:46 am    Post subject: Re: Lemförder Ball Joint fasteners drilled incorrectly???!!!! Reply with quote

This is why I stopped carrying the Lemforder UBJs. The build of the joint and ball assembly is fine, but way too many of them came to me with the holes drilled crooked like in the pictures. Mine came directly from a wholesale importer who gets them directly from Lemforder, so I am confident that the stock I received is not counterfeit.

The Lemforder LBJs are still made in Germany and have had zero quality control issues whatsoever.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:04 am    Post subject: Re: Chinese Lemförder UBJ Suck (Counterfeit?) Reply with quote

iliketowalk wrote:
I can't believe how few people are actually grokking this post.

The bolts are threaded in on an angle, not a little one, a huge one. When you tighten these down to the upper control arm, only a very small fraction of the shoulder of the bolt is going to touch. We are not using a feeler gauge here, it's a huge effing gap.

So yeah - maybe I'll return them.

The post was more to demonstrate that even the good brand of parts is susceptible to unbelievably bad QC (on two parts), and that there is a chance that these may be counterfeit parts - so be on the lookout.


What the hell is "grokking"? Is that some sort of perversion? Never heard of that before, translation please.
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