Steering box question (yes i've searched)

[74volksrodwv]

OK, my 68 has a lot of play in the steering. Im going to go through and adjust it, replace the rod ends between the pitman arm and the center pin. I've been trying to look for a reconditioned steering box or a rebuild kit for one in case I get through everything and I still need to go that route. My big question is, is the 68 steering box a one year only part? All the places I've seen selling steering boxes list 68-72. I've searched the samba and found only one post in one thread that says its a one year only part. any help would be greatly appreciated.
here's my steering box. its at least leaking so I'd guess the seals need redone.

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1960 euro beetle
1964 beetle (for sale)
1970 beetle (sold)
1973 beetle(deceased)
1967 13 window deluxe
1968 deluxe bus
1973 bus(sold)
1978 westfalia(deceased)
1979 deluxe westfalia(sold)

[richparker]

Try Wolfgang International, they sell rebuilt steering boxes. There is an adjustment on the box to take some slop out, I'd try that first if you have not already adjusted it. Many people pack the box with grease, which stops the leaking. There are mixed options here about putting grease in the box. I did it with my OG box and had no issues.
_________________
__________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
’71 Double Cab

[74volksrodwv]

they were the first place I looked. I plan on adjusting it, putting new oil in it and changing out the rod ends to get all the slop out of it I can and see where I'm at at that point. Hopefully I wont need one. Wolfgang int lists them as 68-72. im inclined to believe that the 68 box isn't one year only but I'd really like to know for sure before I ever go that route and spend that kind of money
_________________
1960 euro beetle
1964 beetle (for sale)
1970 beetle (sold)
1973 beetle(deceased)
1967 13 window deluxe
1968 deluxe bus
1973 bus(sold)
1978 westfalia(deceased)
1979 deluxe westfalia(sold)

[richparker]

It's not a one year only box. Wolfgang will not see you a new box until they receive your core. Cores are becoming had to find and many people don't send them back.
_________________
__________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
’71 Double Cab

[74volksrodwv]

Awesome! Hopefully I don't need to go that far to correct my issues but its good to know im not limited to finding a one year specific part.
_________________
1960 euro beetle
1964 beetle (for sale)
1970 beetle (sold)
1973 beetle(deceased)
1967 13 window deluxe
1968 deluxe bus
1973 bus(sold)
1978 westfalia(deceased)
1979 deluxe westfalia(sold)

[BerneseMtnDog]

German Supply sells replacement seals. According to their web page the output shaft seal is a 55-69 year part: http://www.germansupply.com/home/customer/search.php?substring=steering+box which makes me think that the 68 box might be unique?

Steve

[aeromech]

I'll tell you what I know about gearboxes. The 1968-1972 are all interchangeable. I've had 4-5 apart and done a so-so rebuild on them. I don't have my own machine shop so I'm limited to cleaning, lubing, painting, replacing oil seals, setting end play, and trying to put good parts together to make a good box. That said, the pegs get seized and stop turning and then flat spot. I've acquired a replacement peg once from Alan Schofield for around $150 and found it didn't fit even though it looked like it would. I have a friend that bought a rebuild from Wolfgang only to find it was crap and he sent it back. I think he's been through 3 of their boxes and now seems happy. Here's some pics

This is the peg that's been galled because those tappered rollers stopped turning

The insides

Pins

The oil seals can been found at bearing supply houses. I wish I could be more help.
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

[Tom Powell]

I'm finished with trying to eliminate steering slop. Bottom line: not all the slop has been eliminated, but there is less than before. It's easy to blame the steering box for the slop, but it's not always the most to blame. I found the best way to identify the slop was to drive the bus up on ramps and crawl under while a helper moves the steering wheel in the slop. Work your way down through the components and identify where the slop is happening: coupler, coupler flange, steering box, draglink, center pin, tie rods. I ended up replacing everything.

There are a lot of caveats when replacing parts:
Many replacement couplings are wimpy and twist like a tortilla. VW or Elephant couplings are stiff and almost inflexible. Sometimes good couplings have the VW logo ground off.
Castellated nuts and cotter pins are a PITA. Use locking nuts when reassembling.
The rebuilt box may have better seals than your leaking OG, but there may be more slop in in the worm gear or peg than the core you submit.
The rebuilt box may have the groove for the coupling flange 90º off from your OG box.
The pittman arm may be a PITA to remove.
A replacement draglink may have the threads started in a different place than OG, resulting in a need to adjust the tie rods.
OG has only one adjustable tie rod. Two adjustable tie rods may be necessary or make the job easier. My tie rods were both non adjustable because of age and rust.
When finished the steering box must be on the high spot with the steering wheel spokes level and the bus goes straight on an uncrowned road.
Modern wheel alignment shops and workers don't understand steering box on the high spot. They only seem to know spokes level, wheels straight.

There are several other threads on steering slop that I have posted to with my problems, solutions, tools and procedures. BusDaddy, SGKent, Aeromech, Telford and others have helped me through my tribulations.
I would post links to the other threads, but I'm lazy and I'll let you search and gain knowledge. Good luck.

A sticky for steering slop with the links gathered into one place would be a good thing. TCash hasn't been around for awhile, but it could be a part of his Tech Tips under Steering.

Aloha
tp

[wcfvw69]

When I bought my 70', the steering gear was leaking badly out of the pitman arm seal. I also had a lot of slop that was a combo of worn out tie rods, worn center pin, etc.

I was able to remove my steering box and disassemble it to inspect. Luckily, I found no horrid wear in it like Gary had on that peg. I saw no obvious wear and simply cleaned it up, readjusted the peg and box, cleaned and painted it, installed new seals and filled it up with hypoid oil. After changing all the worn suspension items and adjusting the box correctly, I have no perceivable play in the steering.

I've read horror stories about the lack of quality in the "rebuilt" steering boxes. Badly worn boxes would need parts replaced that are not for sale. So, before buying a rebuilt box, I'd get clarity on what "rebuilt" means to them.

There's thread on here where someone made some alterations to their frame to fit the later steering box on his early bay. The late bay steering boxes are still being sold new. The work to make it fit wasn't too bad. If my steering gear would have been obviously bad inside, I would of went that way vs. buying a "rebuilt" gear.
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[aeromech]

Below is the ad from Schofield clearly stating that the peg fits up to 1972. It didn't.

Steering peg 211-415-223B
211415223B
£96.00
Quantity:
1
at £96.00 each Add To Basket


Steering box peg, top quality reproduction part, manufactured to original specifications.

This is the most likely part to wear causing play at the steering wheel.

Can be used for 55-7/72 steering boxes.

(This is the 1 piece version, but will work on early split bus boxes upto '63 with the 2 pc peg, phone for details)
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

[74volksrodwv]

Well I crawled under the bus yesterday afternoon to get my tach wired up and figured id go through the steering system and see if I could easily see where my problem is. I was turning the steering coupler with my hand and watching what moved and what didn't. Well I'm inclined to believe my drag link needs replaced at this point. When I turn the coupler you can see the pitman arm move right along with it but theres a lot of flex in the ends of the drag link before they move the center pin. Both ends of the drag link are so worn out that you can grab the drag link and move it back and forth without moving the pitman arm or the center pin. I'm going to replace it, make sure the box is full of oil and adjust the steering if needed and see where that gets me. I appreciate everyones good information here!

_________________
1960 euro beetle
1964 beetle (for sale)
1970 beetle (sold)
1973 beetle(deceased)
1967 13 window deluxe
1968 deluxe bus
1973 bus(sold)
1978 westfalia(deceased)
1979 deluxe westfalia(sold)

[Abscate]

You can use lock nuts IFF you can easily access them and put them into a regular inspection schedule. Otherwise, stick with castellated and pins.
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[ccpalmer]

[aeromech]

I've replaced a lot of drag links for this kind of wear. It's the first thing I look at with sloppy steering problems.
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

[richparker]

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1302126
_________________
__________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
’71 Double Cab

[Tom Powell]

Replacing the drag link can be the first step on a slippery slope. Replacement drag links may not have the threads started in the same place as your OG drag link. The drag link is adjustable at one end only and by one full turn only. The result is that your steering wheel spokes may not be level going straight down the street. It may be cocked in one direction and when the drag link is adjusted one full turn it will be cocked in the other direction. #The steering wheel spokes should be level when the steering box is on the high spot.# To get the bus going straight on an uncrowned road you may have to adjust the tie rod(s). The toe in may change when the tie rod(s) is/are adjusted. I accomplished this with two new adjustable tie rods that were adjusted to the exact length of the OG tie rods and a curtain rod to check toe in. Both tie rods were adjusted 1/4 turn at a time until straight down the street with spokes level was obtained. The toe in was checked to be within Bentley specs with the curtain rod.

BTDT

Aloha
tp

[sjbartnik]

Just been through this on my car and it is indeed a pain but DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT correct steering wheel position by removing it from column and putting it back on straight.
_________________
1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[Tom Powell]

[sjbartnik]

It's slightly different on a Type 3 as we don't have the whole relay arm thing but same concept, the box has to be centered when making alignment adjustments (there is a center marking ring on the input shaft) and when you're done, if the wheel isn't centered when driving, you have to adjust the tie rods to center it, and then make sure the toe is right. Repeat as necessary to get it right.
_________________
1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[lolight70]

Went thru my whole front end recently
Replaced all ball joints, tie rod ends, centre pin,drag link arm, steering dampner and coupling
My steering box still makes a noise when I rock the steering wheel.
I thought it was empty but to my surprise it was still full of oil.
Took it out, opened it , inspected it, no visible wear anywhere.
Fill it up with fresh oil, refined , adjusted it , still makes the noise, still too much play
Went underneath to check and noticed that the output shaft of the steering box at the pitman arm end moves ever so slightly in a side to side motion.
Will remove it again , will get the shaft and housing checked and see if it can be rectified.
Everything looks fine on the bench but as soon as it's in the car and force is applied, that's when u notice the play.
All the best with getting a better box