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Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build
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theDrew
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:17 am    Post subject: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

Thought I'd start my very own build thread cause I'm that excited about it.

This is my first adventure with a turbo -- advice is always welcomed.

I've been planning this for a while, its exciting to see it starting to come together.

I'm trying to size everything so I can eventually use it with E85.


I'll try and keep things updated as I work on it.

Build Specs:

-AS41 mag case, std bore & thrust
-AA 4340 crank
-5.400 h beams w/ ARP2000 bolts
-ACN Squishies
-Web Cams 86b
-Steve Tims' Stage 2 heads, 59cc chambers
-Udo tool steel lifters
-8740 8mm head studs
-total seal gapless 2nd rings


-T3/T4 turbo from Shag, .48 ar
-TiAL 38mm wastegate
-Turbosmart Vee Port PRO blow off valve
-CB's hideaway header

-FiveO motor sports black ops 1000cc injectors
-CB's high flow injected manifolds (matched by Steve Tims & Co)
-intake and intercooler still to be worked out
-single throttle body -- prolly 50mm.

-MS3X ecu
-LS2 coils
-Mario's cam sync
-a whole grip of sensors


Here my 74 super
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Turbo 2276 MS3X build http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673125


Last edited by theDrew on Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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theDrew
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

my case back from the parts washer:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


measuring main bearings
main bearing clearances are .0020 - 0.0025
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after everything is back from being balanced, cleaning and assembling
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cleaning cylinders over and over and over
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1985 Vanagon Campmobile w/ 2005 EJ253 SOHC
Turbo 2276 MS3X build http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673125


Last edited by theDrew on Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:40 am; edited 3 times in total
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theDrew
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:29 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

Mocking things up and setting my DH.

With my heads being 59cc, I have to run a bit bigger DH than I'd like.

With the squishes having the 4.3cc hump on it, it makes things a bit interesting, my deck height tool is cut up to accomidate it.

After consulting John @ ACN, I'm shooting for a .070 dh, which puts my static compression at 9.4:1

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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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jfats808
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

I hope john doesn't consider the picture part of the NDA. Although it's obscured by the plate and dial. You may want to remove it asap.
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theDrew
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

jfats808 wrote:
I hope john doesn't consider the picture part of the NDA. Although it's obscured by the plate and dial. You may want to remove it asap.


the tops are obscured and and I'm really not trying to violate anything
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jason
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

Does he still bother? I didnt get one or sign anything with mine. Not saying its alright either.
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UK Luke 72
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

Following this Very Happy
What exactly is under the NDA? Just the outline? the angle of the hump? The CCs are widely known, I don't see what he can actually do other than legally protect the name (super-squish)... If EMPI started leaving a dome on the piston that was kind a around 4.3cc and kinda sloped toward the ex side of the chamber not saying it'd be as good as johns but...

Onto bearing clearances is that measure with the bore gauge or Plastigauge?
How come you aren't going for a turbo specific cam grind?
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theDrew
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

UK Luke 72 wrote:

Onto bearing clearances is that measure with the bore gauge or Plastigauge?
How come you aren't going for a turbo specific cam grind?


bore gauge

I'm using the mentality that any NA grind will be even better under boost.
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theDrew
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

few more measurements i'll add:

using total seal gapless 2nd rings

using their guidance, gaped the rings to 0.021
(up to 15lbs = 3.70079in x 0.0055 = 0.0203)

rod side play was 0.010 - 0.011
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Dauz
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

Good luck!
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esde
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

I will be watching this, as I am working on a 2232 efi turbo build. Undecided on a header and turbo at this point. Having SL prep a turbo and making the header myself is most likely at this point.
Are those the "thick" 94 cylinders?
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theDrew
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:29 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

Got the block together last night. I'd put it together and taken it apart so many times its nice to finally declare it done.

some highlights:
CB's max-flow pickup
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went over the all the edges on the cam with a smooth file
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udo becker tool steel lifters
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CB's pro series straight cut cam gear, running straight up
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last look at the internals
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get yourself one of these....makes life much easier
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and p&c's in, i clocked all the rings according to total seals guidance
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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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theDrew
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:47 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

esde wrote:
I will be watching this, as I am working on a 2232 efi turbo build. Undecided on a header and turbo at this point. Having SL prep a turbo and making the header myself is most likely at this point.
Are those the "thick" 94 cylinders?


talk with Shag, he's helpful and extremely knowledgable.

no, standard thickness 94's. Either here or STF's someone was saying the standard AA cylinders are good up till about 300hp, which is higher than what I'm shooting for.
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bpritchert87
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:01 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

Drew,

Love the build! Definitely will be following.

Two quick questions, Did the heads have to be setup
any differently for a turbo build?

I thought I read somewhere that turbos will eat up the
valve guides or something about how heads need to be
setup for turbos (of course lower compression/larger chambers)
but did not know if anything else had to be changed..

Also how was your last build performance wise?
I am looking to run something very very similar and
want to understand how yours ran before..

Thanks!
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theDrew
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:07 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

bpritchert87 wrote:
Drew,

Two quick questions, Did the heads have to be setup
any differently for a turbo build?



no idea -- I'm not doing anything different other than lowering the CR

bpritchert87 wrote:

Also how was your last build performance wise?
I am looking to run something very very similar and
want to understand how yours ran before..


it ripped, I loved it... I ran around with it NA for 3yrs, I want more and love a challange, so here we are.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

theDrew wrote:
esde wrote:
I will be watching this, as I am working on a 2232 efi turbo build. Undecided on a header and turbo at this point. Having SL prep a turbo and making the header myself is most likely at this point.
Are those the "thick" 94 cylinders?


talk with Shag, he's helpful and extremely knowledgable.

no, standard thickness 94's. Either here or STF's someone was saying the standard AA cylinders are good up till about 300hp, which is higher than what I'm shooting for.


Agreed. I know where he gets his turbochargers built. Of whom will just sell you the turbos and parts. Shag will actually recommend what wheel specs, compressor housing, and turbine to go with based on your specific application. All without marking up the price of the unit.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

I like to put the oil pump in before torqing, just me. Did you check those cam gears for run out and lash? Mine were so far off it wasn't funny. Like your hidden trigger.
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theDrew
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

i checked the cam end play a while back, it was spec, I can't remember what it was.

i couldn't feel any lash, but I didn't actually measure it.

my old AA straight gear set had lash I could feel, so I took this as improvement Smile
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theDrew
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:01 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

no work last night, but here's some of the goodies i'm stoked about

turbo by shag. .48 AR, shag's recommendation since I wont be going over 7k rpm (or for long)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


close up of the trigger wheel (from Mario @ dubshop). Some advice, pay him to do the machining. I had to go back to my machine shop 2x to get it just right. CB's serp belt setup.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


TiAL 38mm wastegate. 7 psi spring in it. I have a boost controller for the MS3 when I'm ready to go higher. I'm a sucker for shiny colored anodized parts
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:30 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

Nice build thread. Thanks for this. Though I'll never build something like this, it's interesting to follow along.

Is this beast gonna be ready for the NW Bug Run? I hope so. I'd really like to have a look at your engine.

Keep posting updates.

Good Luck.
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