1978 Kombi front end rebuild. Plans, for comment!

[mcdonaldneal]

I’m on holiday at the moment and I have time on my hands to plan a fairly extensive front end rebuild of our 1978 RHD Auto Bay over the Scottish Winter.
I’m hoping for it to be a refurb/rebuild of the steering, brakes and suspension, as well as a repaint of the underbody parts that need it.
There are three problems that make me want to do the job in one big go:
-New, slight ‘clunk’ in the steering from the straight ahead position.
I’m going to check all of the steering elements, but include a steering box refresh, new seals and Bentley adjustment.
-Newly torn ball joint boots on the LHS. On good advice, if the ball joints are within spec, I will clean them in situ, install grease zerks, regrease and fit new boots.
-Front (disc) brakes have never had a refurb, so I plan to strip them down, Paint calipers and splash plates, check specs and reassemble. All as per Bentley!

I’ve started a thread partly for personal documentation, partly to give the wise heads of TheSamba a chance to give advice and save me from myself and hopefully, at the end of the day to show that it is doable by an averagely competent novice mechanic (like me!)

Plan of attack to follow in the next post....
_________________
1978 marino yellow Bay Dormobile camper
1969 signal orange Karmann Ghia convertible
1976 martini olive Bay Dormobile camper

Stop dead photo links! Post photos to The Samba Gallery!

[mcdonaldneal]

Basic plan follows. I am aware that the best plans rarely survive contact with the enemy!

All guided by Bentley.

Remove ‘roo bars and splash tray under pedal assembly.
6 ton jack stands under beam.
Check steering elements and play.
Measure ball joint play.
Measure wheel bearing play.
Remove front wheels

Dismantle steering elements
Remove steering gearbox
Pull through heater cables for a regrease (they need new boots)
Dismantle front hub and brakes (leave brake lines connected, hang caliper)
Remove steering knuckle
Clean ball joints
Install grease zerk to ball joints (per itinerantaircooled, I think!)
Replace boots
Remove shocks, check. Very likely replace with Koni upgrade.

Order parts.
Clean/blast/repaint parts
Repair/replace if needed

Rust treat and repaint underbody as needed. Definitely under wheel arches. (Bedliner/POR15/body colour... tips?)
Repaint calipers
Replace seals in steering box, install, adjust play.
Rebuild brakes.
_________________
1978 marino yellow Bay Dormobile camper
1969 signal orange Karmann Ghia convertible
1976 martini olive Bay Dormobile camper

Stop dead photo links! Post photos to The Samba Gallery!

[white74westy]

[mcdonaldneal]

Thanks white74westy, I hadn’t looked at that as a potential issue, but once I have the steering box out I do want to do as much preventative work as I can!
I presume the centre pin setup applies to the late bay box (I’m sure I’ll find out as I look into it!
Cheers

Edit: to my shame, I’ve quickly discovered it’s not part of the steering box!
Noted for my attention anyway!
_________________
1978 marino yellow Bay Dormobile camper
1969 signal orange Karmann Ghia convertible
1976 martini olive Bay Dormobile camper

Stop dead photo links! Post photos to The Samba Gallery!

[vwwestyman]

My '73 developed an occasional clunk in the steering over the winter, that became more and more common as spring wore on, and also the steering got more sloppy and I got more and more nervous driving it, and indeed largely stopped until I sorted it out.

Was originally thinking I'd rebuild the whole front suspension as I'd done on my Thing last summer (everything really was worn out!)

Turns out for the bus, it was just the ends of the drag link that were both very worn and loose. A new link and the steering is much more tight, and clunk free!

All that to say, it may be worthwhile to inspect things before just replacing everything! If it all looks worn out then go ahead, but if not maybe you can save some money for another project.
_________________
Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

[mcdonaldneal]

Thanks Dave!
Totally agree. At the moment the only things that are definitely getting replaced are the ball joint boots and the steering box seals.
I realise that list might grow!...

Plan is to inspect everything and only replace as necessary.
_________________
1978 marino yellow Bay Dormobile camper
1969 signal orange Karmann Ghia convertible
1976 martini olive Bay Dormobile camper

Stop dead photo links! Post photos to The Samba Gallery!

[jtauxe]

If you really want to do a thorough rebuild, pull the torsion arms, torsion springs, and relay pin!
_________________
John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD

[mcdonaldneal]

[Angus II]

[quote=Also, I am working in a fairly confined garage and I was worried I wouldn’t have the width to get the torsion springs out (although I’m not sure how much extra space you would need!)[/quote]

Hello,
No one will notice that small hole in the side of the garage wall.....
You've gotta do what you've gotta do. Too get the job done.
Just look out for the electrical wires and plumbing with the hole saw,

[SGKent]

I guess we are just plain lazy in this household, even my dog has it. I'd probably top it off with gear oil and follow the VW instructions on adjusting the steering box, then look for where the play is before diving in to more. Not saying you shouldn't but it may be more than is needed. Replacement ball joints of original quality are almost unobtanium.

_________________
"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it." - George Carlin

[mcdonaldneal]

Very good!
I had heard that about ball joints.
I’ll see how my enthusiasm looks when I get home to the cold and wet!
_________________
1978 marino yellow Bay Dormobile camper
1969 signal orange Karmann Ghia convertible
1976 martini olive Bay Dormobile camper

Stop dead photo links! Post photos to The Samba Gallery!

[wcfvw69]

My advice is to inspect all the original parts closely and don't replace anything unless they are worn or out of spec. As Kent stated, the original parts quality is much better than anything new sold today. My 67 bug has the original tie rods, steering gear still in like new condition. I'll run them until they show wear obviously.

On my bus, I had to change all the front suspension parts. New ball joints, tie rods, shocks, center pin, drag link and I removed the steering gear. The gear was in good condition though it needs a the bushing installed as it has a slight clunk but no slop. I disassembled it to inspect the internal parts, cleaned and then painted the box while installing new seals and filling it w/new oil.

I did source the best quality parts I could find and was rewarded with a nice, tight front suspension now.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc

40+ years of VW repair, and VW parts and vehicle restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.

**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours**

[mcdonaldneal]

Thanks Bill, good advice noted.
Am I right that you went for new Boge shocks and found them good?
Cheers,
Phil
_________________
1978 marino yellow Bay Dormobile camper
1969 signal orange Karmann Ghia convertible
1976 martini olive Bay Dormobile camper

Stop dead photo links! Post photos to The Samba Gallery!

[wcfvw69]

[mcdonaldneal]

Thread resurrection here, after an enforced break when real life took priority!
The Kombi has been sitting on axle stands for a couple of months, but I hadn’t really got the chance to start this job. A cold snap of weather didn’t make it appealing either!
Anyway, I have removed the fantastically heavy ‘roo bars from the front, and the splash pan (which does do an amazing job of protecting the pedal area paintwork underneath!)
First step was to estimate the play in the ball joints. Like most of us, I don’t have the special VW tool to move the joint, so I rigged up a ratchet strap to try and close the ‘play’.
Try as I might, I couldn’t measure any significant play. The lower left joint with the torn boot maybe had about 0.4mm, but nothing else registered movement.
I’m going to assume that they are within the 2mm spec that Bentley allows and plan for cleaning, and replacement of the torn boots, and possibly fitting grease zerks.

_________________
1978 marino yellow Bay Dormobile camper
1969 signal orange Karmann Ghia convertible
1976 martini olive Bay Dormobile camper

Stop dead photo links! Post photos to The Samba Gallery!

[airschooled]

When you have the spindle off for boot replacement, you can measure play in each joint with calipers. Good call getting new boots; OG joints in spec will last much longer than whatever we buy today.

Robbie
_________________
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[mcdonaldneal]

I made an assessment of the steering elements, after adding a couple more jack stands and making extra sure the rear wheels were chocked!

It all looks very much untouched for many years, as I suspected, although the steering box is covered in underseal and wet oil, and the relay lever pivot is very greasy, which I assume is from the front beam greasing procedure.
There was no detectable movement on manhandling the various joints in the system, particularly the relay lever seemed solid.
I had a friend wiggle the steering wheel from side to side and the total play at various points in the system was as follows (movement at the steering wheel rim):
Steering coupler: zero
Steering box: 3-4cm
Relay lever: 4-6cm
Tie rod, outer ends: 6-8cm
Left wheel: 8cm
Right wheel: 8-10cm

It seems that the worst play is at the steering box (30-40mm vs Bentley spec of 15mm). It may be that would adjust out, but I am going to remove the box to replace the seals, and adjust after refitting. The rest, I will disassemble, clean up and paint, unless any part seems obviously worn when I take it off.

_________________
1978 marino yellow Bay Dormobile camper
1969 signal orange Karmann Ghia convertible
1976 martini olive Bay Dormobile camper

Stop dead photo links! Post photos to The Samba Gallery!

[wcfvw69]

Hey Phil,

I'm not sure I understand your play comment. You should have no perceivable play in any of the tie rods. The center link should be tight as well.
Those all look original to me.


Link


Here's one of my outer tie rods. You can see and hear the play in it. All my tie rods had some play in them. They were changed. I also replaced the blown steering damper, resealed the box, replaced the center link pins and bushing and the big drag link.

It made a huge difference!
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc

40+ years of VW repair, and VW parts and vehicle restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.

**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours**

[mcdonaldneal]

Thanks Bill.
There is no movement at any of the tie rod joints when I try by hand, so I think they’re good.
The ‘play’ figure I noted is the amount I can move the steering wheel side to side without the road wheel (or tie rod end) moving. It sounds worse than it is, I’m pretty sure there has been similar play in the system for years, but apart from the steering box there is no loose joint. Even the relay lever seems pretty solid, although I expect to knock out the pin and inspect, but if it looks ok I’ll not replace the bushes.

I’ve now taken the tie rods and the damper off, but I am taking a break as the rear end of the drag link is very awkward to get to with my ball joint separator and I’ve run out of energy!
_________________
1978 marino yellow Bay Dormobile camper
1969 signal orange Karmann Ghia convertible
1976 martini olive Bay Dormobile camper

Stop dead photo links! Post photos to The Samba Gallery!

[mcdonaldneal]

Man, the rear attachment of the drag link is a PIA to remove with the ball joint separator tool! The ratchet spanner ends up being inaccessible in the framework and you can crank about two ratchet clicks at a time and the forward stroke needs a LOT of force! A friend and I spent quite a while cursing at it until I eventually bashed it with a BFH while it was under pressure and it popped off with a hell of a bang.
After that, the Bentley procedure for removing the steering gearbox seems to require removal of the steering column as a unit in the late Bay. This meant faffing about removing floor plates, unbolting the column, removing the instrument cluster and column switches, disconnecting the washer hoses (note to self: depressurise the washer bottle FIRST next time!).
After all of that, the bloody column still doesn’t move freely, but I’m hoping that I will be able to work out why when I get back underneath.
I strongly suspect the steering box could come out with the column in place, but I’m too far down the road now!
_________________
1978 marino yellow Bay Dormobile camper
1969 signal orange Karmann Ghia convertible
1976 martini olive Bay Dormobile camper

Stop dead photo links! Post photos to The Samba Gallery!