Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Automatic Type NH ~ No R, No 3rd?
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
mark-hans
Samba Member


Joined: October 17, 2016
Posts: 12
Location: Amsterdam
mark-hans is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:32 pm    Post subject: Automatic Type NH ~ No R, No 3rd? Reply with quote

We've been busy with this Auto Box from a late Vanigon. We've completely rebuilt it twice, checked and re-checked. Same problem keep occuring.

The box is very slow to build up pressure to engage reverse, which is the same story for 3rd gear (top). 1 & 2 are as crisp and sharp as ever. We've come to a head scratching stop and are reaching out to you guys and gals in the US, as you have far more Automatic Vanigons than we have in Europe. Can anyone 'who knows' advise and does anyone have the original VW manual for the NH Box in PDF. Customer is getting bored with us!.

Many thanks......... TheSamba is the knowledge bank of VW for sure.

Mark Confused
_________________
Mark, Amsterdam.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
AtlasShrugged
Samba Member


Joined: October 30, 2008
Posts: 1504
Location: Decatur, Ga. USA
AtlasShrugged is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:39 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic Type NH. No R, No 3rd? Reply with quote

Sounds like a direct/reverse clutch problem. Here is a pdf link for the automatic below. It references Jetta but the autobox internals are identical. Our differentials are different.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/tchaad/Lost%20Knowledge/010_troubleshooting_guide.pdf

Here is a link to a problem diagnosis for an auto trans. The section that has the clutch pack air pressure test are very relevant. (use a rubber tipped blow nozzle on an air hose with the pressures dialed down) This test can be done with the valve body removed and the transmission still in the Vanagon.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=612835

Good luck and dont become discouraged. Our old slush-box transmissions are very reliable. Once your problems are resolved look around the Samba about installing Audi 100/200 Turbo internals. Lots of Fun!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
AtlasShrugged
Samba Member


Joined: October 30, 2008
Posts: 1504
Location: Decatur, Ga. USA
AtlasShrugged is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:54 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic Type NH. No R, No 3rd? Reply with quote

Here is a fellow that rebuilt his broken automatic on a picnic table while in a campground.

It helps to have a junkyard spare 010 nearby for sure.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=253381


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
vwfreek61
Samba Member


Joined: May 31, 2004
Posts: 279
Location: Green Bay, WI
vwfreek61 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Automatic Type NH. No R, No 3rd? Reply with quote

My van lost third and reverse, the problem ended up being a blown seal in the Direct/Reverse clutch pack. Did you replace the seal in the Direct/Reverse clutch pack? You have to buy it separately because it doesn't come in the rebuild kit.
_________________
Kenneth
1964 Bug with Saxomat
1976 VW/Harley Trike Autostick
1987 Vanagon Westy w/2.0 ABA
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mark-hans
Samba Member


Joined: October 17, 2016
Posts: 12
Location: Amsterdam
mark-hans is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:38 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic Type NH. No R, No 3rd? Reply with quote

Firstly, Atlas, THANK YOU!...... We really need to talk to people like you who have experience!......The links were perfect too, all printed out.

A little more details.
We stripped and rebuild this gearbox with all new plates, all new seals, everything. There is a bit of wear on the separation plate but NOT anywhere as much as on your photo.......We've checked the valve body VERY carefully indeed, but maybe we missed something.... The reason we rebuilt this box was it got water in it, so we also fitted a new oil cooler. When we fitted the box for the second time, we blew out the cooler, a tiny bit of debris was also in there. OK, it's all back in........

Car is warm. Engage D & she bites perfectly. Stall test is 2200RPM for 3 seconds then release. Engage R & she bites, but slowly. If you gently reverse to about 15 mph, then it bites fully and you can full throttle it, it's engaged, but only after this speed, so, not enough pressure to 'clamp' reverse properly at idle speed. (the pump is perfect & we double checked the pressure release ball that sits in it too, nothing to be seen that reflects.

Back in D, 1st & 2nd are perfect, but she then floats trying to engage 3rd gear, again pressure!....... We are under the impression (rightly or wrongly) that Reverse and 3 have some sort of link, because this was our original problem after the box first appeared to function completely normally.

Now all of this happened after we had driven 50 miles with the box behaving perfectly, so something happened. Dirty Torque converter?.Debris!...

Out came the box, we stripped it and indeed there was debris in the pump and also in the valve body. We cleaned that lot out and every single part of the gearbox, put it back together with a new Torque converter, job done!.

Re-loaded, we have the problem! I've left her for a couple of days and tried again, same problem.

So, it did function perfectly, the TQ was contaminated & we sorted that one out.

I am sure there is a relationship between the pressure needed for reverse & top gear....... Sorry for the long book, but I hope it helps. We wait with great curiosity as to your reply.

Many thanks again from Dream & Drive in Amsterdam. Mark
_________________
Mark, Amsterdam.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
mark-hans
Samba Member


Joined: October 17, 2016
Posts: 12
Location: Amsterdam
mark-hans is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:45 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic Type NH. No R, No 3rd? Reply with quote

Still on the subject of the NH Gearbox.
Is there anywhere an explanation of exactly how the auto box is working. For example, what part of this box 'knows' exactly when to switch gears, for example, from 2 to top (3). What exactly happens when you put the selector in reverse. Why does the box have a 'one way' clutch etc. There is nothing in Bentley to tell you what the fluid is exactly doing and what controls what. It just gives you a list of faults, but not really an explanation. The Valve body is a beautiful mystery!...... If we could understand the exact principal, then perhaps we'd have a better overview!. Any links on this idea?...... Thanks again!

Mark & Pauline.
_________________
Mark, Amsterdam.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
AtlasShrugged
Samba Member


Joined: October 30, 2008
Posts: 1504
Location: Decatur, Ga. USA
AtlasShrugged is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:36 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic Type NH. No R, No 3rd? Reply with quote

Is there anywhere an explanation of exactly how the auto box is working. For example, what part of this box 'knows' exactly when to switch gears, for example, from 2 to top (3).??

http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_8.PDF

Here is an 010 transmission guide in German that answers your question I think, above. The differential section is not relevant for a Vanagon. The automatic is very relevant and nearly identical.

I strongly suggest doing the air pressure test on the clutch packs. It removes the valve body and pump from the fault equation. If the clutch pack leaks..there is the problem, no doubt.

The fault is most likely in the D+R clutch pack or assembly. Those plastic thrust washers in there can be suspect too, part number 010 323 161A. If those plastic washers are worn/missing/broken the clutch pack(s) will not "pressure up" and clamp. There might of been a broken plastic washer bits in the oil pan on the first failure? Seen that.

If you need them they are NLA here in North America. Porsche used to have them for the 924/944 automatics (similar 010 as a Vanagon for some parts) If you need them Porsche parts in your neighborhood may still supply them. If not try the classifieds here on the Samba.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mark-hans
Samba Member


Joined: October 17, 2016
Posts: 12
Location: Amsterdam
mark-hans is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:14 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic Type NH. No R, No 3rd? Reply with quote

That plastic washer, oil feed and separator has been checked. He is perfect. We carry out the pressure check as directed and will report back. Pity I don't read German!. Must be a way to translate. Looks exactly what we need! .... Thank you
_________________
Mark, Amsterdam.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
djkeev
Samba Moderator


Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 23620
Location: North West New Jersey
djkeev is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:39 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic Type NH. No R, No 3rd? Reply with quote

A few years ago a member put a lot of work into a translation.

http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_8.PDF

I hope Mark doesn't mind me sharing his work ....

Mark Seigal



010 service

David,

As promised, the 'Butchered' translation is below. The original translation is attached.

Again, my computer skills are not as good as my mechanical ability so maybe you would put this in a word format or even a PDF file. Most of the translation is self explanatory and should be easy to understand. I did change some of the wording to match American English leaning on mechanics lingo. I did not proof read it too much since I just completed it.




Mark

*****************


1]
Self-Study Program

Automatic transmission for Volkswagen and Audi

Volkswagen Factory AG
Personnel Development and Training

2]
Do you know the automatic transmission 010?

In this self-study program, you'll learn what you need to know about the
-construction
-about function.
In addition to the introductory pages on the operation and structure of the automatic transmission, this booklet contains three chapters:
Torque converter and planetary gear
final drive
transmission control
Each of these chapters has a specific color, which you will always find in the components of the automatic gearbox, which are covered in the relevant chapter.
This will allow you to look into this booklet
always easy to navigate.

3]
If you're a mechanic or a KD consultant [ed. Service Advisor?], all you need to do is work through the first two chapters. The chapter about transmission control is mainly addressed to specialists.
As you work through, read each chapter carefully and read page by page. Then you will learn how the automatic transmission is built and how it works.
You already know this sign from the self-study programs "the Scirocco" and "the Golf". You will also find it in this issue in some places. It refers you to the repair group 37, where you can find the exact setting instructions in the repair thread.

Guide 37

4]
Introduction and Operation

The automatic transmission 010 is a hydraulically controlled three-speed transmission with upstream hydrodynamic torque converter. All gears are automatically switched within the selected driving range. It differs from the automatic transmission 003 by,
-two-separate planetary gear sets
-a mechanical control
-a multi-disc brake for 1st gear and reverse gear
-and parallel shafts for the final drive.

Vergaserzug Flexballzug - Carburetor train/Flexible Control [ed. Different power plants?]
Planetengetriebe - Planetary gear
Ersatzteilnummer 010....... - Spare part number
Gaspedalzug - Accelerator Pedal
Wählhebelseilzug - Selector Lever

Selector lever cable, carburetor cable, and accelerator cable must be adjusted

Guide 37/22

5]
With the selector lever following driving ranges can be selected:
P- Park; the vehicle is blocked.
R- Reverse driving range.
N- Neutral; no power transmission.
D- forward driving range; all three forward gears automatically switch off.
2- forward driving range; 1st and 2nd go automatically.
1- forward driving range; only 1st gear.
The selector lever positions P, R, and 1 are mechanically locked. The lock is released by pressing the side button on the selector lever.

Starting The engine can only be started in P or N.
Select The selection of one of the driving ranges D, 2, 1, or R may only be carried out at idle speed of the engine when the vehicle is stationary. While driving, the selector lever - also with gas from D in 2 can be placed, but only below 71mph [115km/h]. the position 1 may only be inserted below 40mph [65km/h]; To do this, the lock key must be pressed.
Kick down By pushing the accelerator pedal beyond the full throttle position, the shift points are shifted upwards. Below a fixed speed, a forced shift back into the gear that is most favorable for the acceleration is achieved.
Pushing Starting It is not possible to start the engine by pushing or towing on this automatic gearbox because the required control oil pressure is only generated by the gear pump when the engine is running.
Towing Towing the vehicle with automatic gearbox can take place in position N. The speed must not be higher than 31mph [50km/h] and the distance not greater than 31 miles [50km]. For larger distances, the car must be raised in front, because with the engine stopped the lubrication the rotating gear parts therefore those parts may fail.

Drehmomentwandler - Torque Converter
Achsantrieb - Final Drive

6]
Automatic transmission 010

Planetengetriebe - Planetary gear
ölpumpe - Oil Pump

7]
Design Features

The automatic transmission consists essentially of.
1 The torque converter
2 The planetary gear
3 The final drive
4 The transmission control

The individual transmission components are seated in a two-part aluminum die-cast housing.
The left part of the housing accommodates the planetary gear and the valvebody. It is closed from below by a sheet metal oil pan.
In the right part, the torque converter and the final drive are installed. It is stiffened and sealed by an aluminum lid.

The oil pump supplies the planetary gearbox, the valvebody, and the torque converter with working, lubricating, and cooling fluid [ATF Automatic Transmission Fluid].
The axle drive is lubricated by hypoid gear oil.

Drehmomentwandler - Torque Converter
Achsantrieb - Final Drive

8]
Torque converter and planetary gear

2.-Gang-Bremse - 2nd gear brake band
Direkt-und Rückwärtskupplung - Direct and reverse clutch
Vorwärtskupplung - forward clutch
1.-Gang-und Rückwärtsgang-Bremse - 1st gear and reverse brake clutch
Rollen-Freilauf für den 1. Gang - Roller freewheel clutch for 1st gear
Planetensätze - planetary gear sets

9]
The torque converter drives the planetary gear via the turbine shaft.

The planetary gear consists of:
-The Forward clutch
-The Direct and reverse clutch
-The Gear and reverse brake
-The 2-speed brake
-The Planetary gear sets
-The Roller-freewheel for 1st gear
-The Parking lock

Turbinenwelle - Turbine Shaft
Drehmomentwandler - Torque Converter

10]
The housing of the torque converter is mounted on the freewheel support and centered in the crankshaft.
The blades of the impeller are brazed to the housing.
The turbine wheel is connected to the planetary gear via the turbine shaft.
The stator is mounted on the freewheel unit.
The freewheel unit is attached to the freewheel support.

The torque converter is driven by the engine via the drive flex plate. It's constantly supplied with ATF by the oil pump. To prevent idling at standstill and when the engine is off, the ball valve seals the oil return.

Freilaufstütze - Freewheel Support
Leckölrücklauf - Leaking Oil Return
ölzulauf - Oil Supply
ölrücklauf - Oil Return
Kugelventil - Torque Converter Ball Check Valve
Gehäuse - Torque Converter Housing
Pumpenrad - Impeller
Turbinenrad - Turbine
Leitrad - Stator
Rollen-Freilauf - One Way Roller Clutch
Mitnehmerscheibe - Driver Disc [Flex Plate]
Kühlluft - Cooling Air

11]
Function

With the engine running, the oil that is between the vanes of the pump impeller is pressed further outward against the blade of the turbine wheel by the action of the centrifugal force. Due to the flowing oil flow, the turbine wheel is driven in the direction of engine rotation.

After leaving the turbine wheel, the oil flows against the blade in the stator. Since the stator wheel is locked against the direction of engine rotation, results on the blades of the turbine wheel, a reaction force that causes the torque conversion.
______________________________________________________________________________________
Conversion range
The torque conversion at the moment of starting, at maximum speed difference between the pump and turbine wheel, the largest - about 2.5 times [ed. Stall speed? The Stall speed on a VW 'K' Torque converter is 2,200-2,400 rpm]. With increasing vehicle speed and correspondingly smaller speed difference, the torque conversion decreases steadily.

Coupling region
At a speed ratio of about 0.85 [ed. torque converter slip ratio?], the torque converter lockup begins. The turbine torque is equal to the engine torque; There is no torque conversion anymore. As the driving speed continues to increase, the torque converter only works as a hydraulic clutch.

Braking range
If the turbine wheel reaches a higher speed than the impeller [ie when shifting gears] the torque converter works in the reverse direction as a hydraulic clutch. The turbine wheel now drives the impeller and thus the engine. This is the so-called brake area.

12]
The Planetary Gear sets

The planetary drive consists of the forward planetary set and the reverse planetary set. Both planetary gear sets have a common sun gear. There are 3 planet gears [ed. some have 4 planet gears] with the respective ring gears in engagement. The sun gear is connected via the driver shell with the direct and reverse clutch. The inner ring of the roller-freewheel for the 1-speed is pimped on the planet carrier of the reverse planetary gear set. The outer ring is supported by its noses [ed. clutch pack?] in the floating housing.

Ringrad - Ring Gear
Planetenträger -Planet Carrier
Planetenräder - Planetary Gears
Sonnenrad - Sun Gear
Mitnehmerglocke - Planetary Gear set housing
Rollen-Freilauf für den1.Gang - One way Roller Freewheel for 1st gear
Vorwärtsplanetensatz - Front Planetary gearset
Rückwärtsplanetensatz - Rear Planetary gearset

13]
Function

In a planetary gear set, all gears are constantly engaged. The various stages of shifting are achieved, without interruption of traction, by driving or holding the sun gear, the planet gears, or the ring gear.

To take on the task of holding the gears are the:
-The forward clutch
-The direct and reverse brake
-The 2-speed brake
-The roller freewheel for the 1st gear

Angetriebene Teile - Driven Parts
Festgehaltene Teile - Held Parts

14]
The Forward Clutch

The forward clutch is engaged in all forward gears. The disk pack is installed in the shell of the forward clutch. It consists of inner and outer plates.
They are engaged by the piston via the diaphragm spring and the pressure plate. The inner disks engage with the teeth in the ring gear of the forward planetary gear set.

Kupplungsglocke - Clutch housing
Kolben - Piston
Tellerfeder - Belleville spring
Andrückplatte - Pressure Plate
Ringrad des Vorwärtsplanetensatzes - Ring wheel of the forward planetary set
Außenlamellen - Outer Steel Plates
Druckplatte - End plate
Sicherungsring - Circlip
Innenlamellen - Inner Clutch Disks

The axial clearance of the slats must be adjusted.

Guide 37

15]
Function

The torque of the turbine shaft is transmitted from the forward clutch via the clutch shell and the disc pack to the ring gear of the forward implant set.
With oil pressure, the piston actuates the disc spring, which acts as a lever. It transmits its power 2.2 times more intensively to the clutch pack. As a result, the inner disks are locked with the outer disks.
To release, the piston is relieved of oil pressure and is pushed back by the diaphragm spring. To allow complete release, the residual oil pressure remaining, is dissipated via a ball valve.

Kupplungsglocke - Clutch Housing
Tellerfeder - Belleville Spring
Lamellenpaket - Clutch Disk Pack
Ringrad des Vorwärtsplanetensatzes - Ring Gear of the Front Planetary Gear set
Kolben - Piston
Turbinenwelle - Turbine Shaft
öldruck vom Schieberkasten - Oil Pressure from Valve Body
Kugelventil - Ball Check Valve

16]
The Direct and Reverse Clutch

The direct and reverse clutch is closed in 3rd gear and reverse gear. The disk pack is installed in the clutch drum. It consists of inner and outer plates. They are directly engaged by the piston. The inner disks engage with the teeth on the clutch forward clutch shell.

Kupplungstrommel - Clutch Drum
Lagerbuchse - Bushing
Kolben - Piston
Rückstellfedern - Return Springs
Federteller - Spring Plate
Außenlamellen - Outer Steel Plates
Dichtringe - Seals
Sicherungsring - Circlip
Innenlamellen - Inner Clutch disks

The axial clearance of the slats must be adjusted.

Guide 37

17]
Function

The turbine shaft torque is applied via the forward clutch shell, the direct and reverse clutch disk pack, and the bell jack transmit the sun gear.
The oil pressure forces the piston to compress the disk pack. As a result, the inner disks are locked together by the outer disks.
To release the piston is relieved of oil pressure and pushed back over 24 springs. To allow complete release, the residual residual oil pressure can dissipate via a ball valve.
To release the piston, the oil pressure is relieved and 24 springs push back the piston back. To allow complete release, there is a ball valve to relieve the oil pressure.

Kugelventil - Ball Check Valve
Rückstellfeder - Return Springs
Lammellenpaket - Clutch Pack
Mitnehmerglocke - Planetary Gear set housing
Sonnenrad - Sun Gear
Turbinenwelle - Turbine Shaft
Kolben - Piston
öldruck vom Schieberkasten - Oil Pressure from Valve Body
Druckring - Pressure Ring
Sicherungsring - Circlip

18]
The 1st Gear and Reverse Brake Clutch

The 1 gear and reverse brake is a multi-disc brake. It acts on the planet carrier of the reverse planetary set. The outer plates are guided in grooves in the gearbox housing. The inner disks are pushed onto the planet carrier of the reverse planetary gear set.

Kolben - Piston
Betätigungstopf - Clutch Piston
Federteller mit Rückstellfedern - Spring Plate with Return Springs
Wellischeibe - Wave Washer
Außenlamellen - Outer Steel Plates
Rollen-Freilauf für den 1.Gang - Roller Freewheel for 1st Gear
Innenlamellen - Inner Clutch Disks

19]
Function

In 1st gear, in selector lever position 1, and in reverse, the piston is subjected to oil pressure. It transmits its power on the actuator pot on the disk pack. As a result, the planet carrier of the reverse planetary gear set is held.
Releasing the piston is done by relieving the oil pressure and also pushed back with over 20 springs.

Kolben - Piston
Rückstellfeder - Return Springs
Betätigungstopf - Clutch Piston
Lamellenpaket - Clutch Pack
Planetenträger des Rückwärtsplanetensatzes - Planet Carrier Housing for Rear Planetary gear set
öldruck vom Schieberkasten - Oil Pressure from Valve Body
Sicherungsring - Circlip

20]
The 2nd Gear Brake Band

The 2 gear brake band is a simply looped band brake with a glued friction lining.
It acts on the coupling drum of the direct and reverse clutch. Actuation takes place via a raised piston, which is mounted in a cylinder cover. The cylinder cover is mounted and installed laterally in the gearbox housing.

Kupplungstrommel - Clutch Drum
Einstellschraube - Adjuster Bolt
Stützstange - Adjuster Rod
Bremsband - Brake Band
Rückstellfeder - Return Spring
Kolbenstange - Piston Rod
Kolben - Piston
zylinderdeckel - Cylinder Cover

The play of the brake band is adjusted with the adjustment screw.

Guide 37

21]
Function

In 2nd gear, the small piston surface is pressurized with oil pressure. The piston transmits its power via a piston stem on the brake band. This holds the drum of the direct and reverse clutch. The reaction spring causes soft engagement of the 2nd gear brake band.
To release the brake, when going in 3rd gear, the large piston surface on the inside with oil pressure plus spring force of the return spring, the piston is pushed back. The brake band is released.

Bremsband - Brake Band
Akkufeder - Cushion Spring
Kolben - Piston
Kolbenstange - Piston Rod
Rückstellfeder - Return Spring
öldruck beim Lösen der Bremse - Oil Pressure to Release Brake Band
öldruck beim Anlegen der Bremse - Oil Pressure to Apply Brake Band

22]
Power Flow for 1st Gear

In 1st gear, the forward planetary set and reverse planetary set are involved in the power flow.
The turbine shaft drives the ring gear of the forward planetary gear set via the engaged forward clutch. The forces occurring at the three planet wheels act on the planet carrier on the drive shaft and on the sun gear on the 3 [or 4] planet carriers of the reverse planetary gear set. The ring gear of the reverse planetary gear set is also connected to the drive shaft. The planet carrier of the reverse planetary set thus acts as a torque support.
In the selector lever positions D and 2, the planet carrier of the reverse planetary gear set is prevented by the roller freewheel from turning back.

Direkt-und Rückwärtskupplug - Direct and Reverse Clutch
Worwärtskupplung - Forward Clutch
1.-Gang- un Rückwärtsgang-Bremse - 1st Gear and Reverse Brake Clutch
Rollen-Freilauf für den 1. Gang - Roller Freewheel for 1st Gear
Triebwelle - Drive Shaft
Turbinenwelle - Turbine Shaft
Rückwärtsplanetensatz - Rear Planetary Gearset
Vorwärtsplanetensatz - Front Planetary Gearset

23]
Power Flow for 2nd Gear

In 2nd gear, only the forward planetary gear set is involved in the power flow.
The turbine shaft drives the ring gear of the forward planetary gear set via the engaged forward clutch. The forces occurring at the 3 [or 4] planetary gears act on the drive shaft via the planet carrier. The sun gear is held in place by the clutch shell and the clutch drum of the direct and reverse clutch of the 2nd speed brake. The sun gear thus acts as a torque support. The reverse planetary set and the roller freewheel idle, driven at shaft shaft speed by the ring gear.

2.-Gang-Bremse - 2nd Gear Brake Band
Direkt-und Rückwärtskupplug - Direct and Reverse Clutch
Vorwärtskupplung - Forward Clutch
Vorwärtsplanetensatz - Front Planetary Gearset

24]
Power Flow for 3rd Gear.

In 3rd gear, only the forward planetary gearset is involved in the power flow.
The turbine shaft drives the ring gear of the front planetary gear set via the engaged forward clutch and the sun gear via the engaged direct and reverse clutch.
The front planetary gear set rotates without rolling motions between the planetary gears. As a result, the drive shaft is driven directly [ed. 1 to 1 ratio] with the speed of the turbine shaft. A torque support is not required.
The rear planetary set turns freely.

Direkt-und Rückwärtskupplug - Direct and Reverse Clutch
Vorwärtskupplung - Forward Clutch
Triebwelle - Drive Shaft
Turbinenwelle - Turbine Shaft
Rückwärtsplanetensatz - Rear Planetary Gearset
Vorwärtsplanetensatz - Front Planetary Gearset

25]
Power Flow for Reverse Gear

In reverse, only the reverse planetary gear set is involved in the power flow. The turbine shaft drives the sun gear via the direct and reverse clutch.
The planet carrier of the reverse planetary gear set is held by the 1st gear and reverse brake. It acts as a torque support.
The ring gear of the reverse planetary gear set and thus also the drive shaft are driven by the planetary gears, but counter to the direction of rotation of the turbine shaft.
The forward planetary set is turned free of forces.

Direkt-und Rückwärtskupplug - Direct and Reverse Clutch
1.-Gang- un Rückwärtsgang-Bremse - 1st Gear and Reverse Brake Clutch
Rückwärtsplanetensatz - Rear Planetary Gearset

26]
The Park Lock

In the planetary gear a parking lock is installed, which blocks the drive wheels of the vehicle.
It is required, because in an automatic transmission, the power flow is possible with the engine running and therefore the vehicle can not be blocked by engaging a gear with the engine off.
The parking lock is operated with the selector lever. It may only be inserted when the vehicle is stationary and the engine is switched off.

Parksperrenrad - Parking Gear
Betätigungshebel mit Schaltegment - Shift Positioning lever
Betätigungsstange - Actuating Rod
Betätigungshebel - Actuating Lever
Sperrklinke - Park Lock Pawl

27]
Function

When inserting the selector lever in position P, the pawl is pressed against the outer edge of the parking lock gear. It engages into a catch of the parking lock wheel.

28]
Final Drive

Gelenkflansch mit Welle - Axle Flange
Ausgleichgetriebe - Differential

29]
The power is transmitted via three helical gears
-The spur gear of the drive shaft
-The intermediate wheel
-The spur gear on the differential

The differential works with two large and two small differential bevel gears.
The drive for the speedometer is via a worm wheel.

Triebwelle mit Stirnrad - Drive Shaft Gear [ed. Pinion Gear]
Zwischenrad - Idler Gear
Achse für Zwischenrad - Axle for Idler Gear
Stirnrad am Ausgleichgetriebe - Driven Gear for Differential [ed. Ring Gear]
Antrieb für Geschwindigkeitwmesser - Speedometer Drive Gear

To lubricate the final drive, 0.75L hypoid oil is required. It does not need to be changed!

Guide 37

30]
The Components

Gelenkflansch mit Welle - Axle Flange
Stirnrad am Ausgleichgetriebe - Driven Gear for Differential [ed. Ring Gear]
Einstellscheibe für Axialspiel [Achsantrieb/Planegetriebe] - Shim for axial play [final drive / planetary gear]
Antrieb für Geschwindigkeitsmesser - Drive for speedometer
große Ausgleichkegelräder - Drive Axle bevel gears
Kleine Ausgleichkegelräder - Small differential bevel gears
Anlaufscheiben für Ausgleichkegelräder - Thrust washers for differential bevel gears

31]
Gehäuse für Achsantrieb - Final Drive Housing
Triebwelle mit Stirnrad - Drive Shaft for Gear
Einstellscheibe für Kegelrollenlager - Adjusting Shim for bearing
Freilaufstütze - Support housing for Torque Convert
Zwischenrad - Drive Idler Gear
Achse für Zwischenrad - Axle for Idler Gear
Einstellring für Kegelrollenlager - Adjusting Ring for Differential Roller Bearing
Verschlußschraube für öleinfüllung - Oil Fill Plug

The final drive must be adjusted
- The axial play between final drive and planetary gear
-The preload of the tapered roller bearings on the drive shaft
-The preload of the tapered roller bearings on the idler gear
-The preload of tapered roller bearings on the differential gear

Guide 37

32]
Transmission Control

ölpump - Oil Pump
Fliehkraftregler - Governor
Schieberkasten - Valvebody
Akkumlator - Accumulator

33]
In the hydraulic control system, the automatic upshifting and downshifting of individual gears are controlled precisely at the right time.
For this purpose, the transmission control fulfills the following tasks:
-It provides the planetary gearbox and torque converter with transmission fluid as working, lubricating and cooling fluid.
-It regulates the oil pressure generated by the oil pump for the clutches, brake band, torque converter, centrifugal governor, and accumulator.
-It controls the shift times depending on the selector lever position, kickdown, engine load or driving speed by applying oil pressure to the clutches and brakes or relieving the oil pressure when shifting gears.
-It also ensures that all switching operations are soft and smooth.

The main components of the transmission control are:
-The oil pump
-The governor
-the accumulator
-the valve body

34]
The Oil Pump

The oil pump is a sickle-wheel pump. It is bolted to the inside of the rear wall of the gear housing. The drive is from the engine via the pump shaft to the inner drive gear.
The valve ball and the spring of the pressure relief valve are located in the pump housing. They are held by the cover plate.
The clutches are mounted on the neck of the oil pump. For this reason, the inlet holes for the oil pressure from the valve body to the couplings are located in the pump housing.

Deckplatte - Cover Plate
Mitnehmer - Oil Pump Drive Plate
Innenrad - Inner Drive Gear
Außenrad - Outer Driven Gear
Pumpengehäuse - Oil Pump Housing
Zulaufbohrung für Direkt-und Rückwärtskupplung - Inlet Bore for Direct and Reverse Clutch
Zulaufbohrung für Vorwärtskupplung - Inlet Bore for Forward Clutch
Ventilfeder - Ball Check Valve Spring
Ventilkugel - Ball Check Valve

35]
Function

When the engine is running, the oil pump sucks through the transmission filter and delivers it under pressure to the valve body. The high pressure valve opens only in reverse if the oil pressure exceeds 19-22 bar over pressure [kg / cm2].

öldruck zum Schieberkasten - Oil Pressure to Valvebody
überdruckventil - Oil Pressure Relief valve
ölsieb - Oil Filter

36]
The Centrifugal Governor

The centrifugal governor provides an on-line pressure dependent on the driving speed. It consists of a shaft with drive pinion and an aluminum housing. In the housing is a flyweight, a slide valve, a spring with spring plate, and a pull rod. The channel plate connects the oil channels of the shaft with the oil channels of the housing. The drive is made by a worm gear, which is connected via the parking lock gear to the drive shaft.

Fliehgewicht - Flyweight
Gehäuse - Housing
Kanalplatte - Channel Plate
Ausgleichsgewicht - Counterweight
Welle - Governor Shaft
Antriebsritzel - Pinion
Schieber- Slide Valve
Feder - Spring
Federteller - Spring Plate
Zugstange - connecting rod

For cleaning, the centrifugal governor can be disassembled.
Guide 37

37]
Function

At the beginning of the rotation of the centrifugal force regulator, the centrifugal weight and the valve slide outward. The driving force counteracts the main pressure of the valve and spring. These forces regulate the pressure known as governor pressure.

Fliehgewicht - Flyweight
Schieber - Slide Valve
Feder - Spring
Federteller - Spring Plate
Hauptdruck - Main Oil Pressure
Reglerdruck - Governor Oil Pressure

38]
The Accumulator

The purpose of the Accumulator is to cushion the shift from 1 to 2 and during gear brake. The piston and spring are installed from below into the transmission housing and are held by the separator plate of the valve body.

Getriebegenhäuse - Transmission housing
Kolben - Piston
Feder - Spring
Schieberkasten - Valvebody
Kanalplatte - Channel Plate

39]
Function

The piston is depressed by the main pressure against a spring force. When switching to 2nd gear, the piston is additionally subjected to the same main pressure from below and moved upwards with the assistance of the spring force. As a result, the pressure build-up in the 2nd gear brake band is delayed as the spring relaxes in the accumulator.

Kolben - Piston
Feder - Spring
Hauptdruck [beim Schalten in den 2. Gang] - Main Pressure when shifting to 2nd Gear
Hauptdruck - Main Oil Pressure

40]
The Valvebody

Kickdownschieber - Kickdown Slide Valve
Handschieber - Selector Slide Valve
Gasdruckschieber - Throttle Pressure Slide Valve
Schieberkasten - Valvebody
Kennbuchstabe - Classification Code
Reglerstopfen 2-3 - Regulator Plug 2-3
Steuerschieber 3-2 - 3-2 Spool Valve
Zwischenplatte - Intermediate Plate
Kanalplatte - Channel Plate
Schaltschieber 2-3 - 2-3 Shift Slide Valve
Stufendruckschieber - Step Pressure Slide Valve [ed. ?]
Wandlerdruckschieber - Torque Converter Pressure Slide Valve
Schaltschieber 1-2 - 1-2 Slide Valve

41]
The valve body contains the valves, springs, and valves. The oil passages and valves are cast in the housing of the valve body and in the channel plate.
Between the upper and lower valvebody, the intermediate plate is made of sheet steel. It serves as a seal and allows fluid to pass thru desired locations between the two valvebody halves.

Reglerstopfen 1-2 - 1-2 Regulator Plug
Gasdruckbegrenzungsschieber - Throttle Pressure Control Slide Valve
Hauptdruckbegrenzungsschieber - Main Pressure Relief Slide Valve
Hauptdruckschieber - Main Pressure Slide Valve

For cleaning, the valve body can be disassembled.

Guide 37

42]
Functional Schematic

43]
Selector lever in position 1/1st Gear

The oil pump supplies the valve body with Oil Pressure. The valve body regulates the oil pressure and this regulated pressure is known as the Main Pressure.

-The forward clutch
-The 1st gear and reverse clutch
-The upper piston surface of the accumulator
-The centrifugal governor.

It supplies the torque converter with Converter Pressure. The Governor Pressure does not supply pressure to the circuit.
In selector lever positions D and 2, the 1st gear and reverse brake are not supplied with main pressure. The regulator pressure, depending on the driving speed, influences the circuits via the valve body.

44]
Functional Schematic

45]
Selector lever in position 2 or D/2nd Gear

The oil pump supplies the valve body with Oil Pressure. The valve body regulates the oil pressure and this regulated pressure is known as the Main Pressure.

-The forward clutch
-The landing side of the 2nd gear Brake Band piston.
-The two piston surfaces of the accumulator
-The centrifugal governor.

It supplies the torque converter with Converter Pressure.
The Governor Pressure, depending on the driving speed, influences the circuits via the valve body.

46]
Functional Schematic

47]
Selector lever in position D/3rd Gear

The oil pump supplies the valve body with oil pressure. The valve body regulates the Oil Pressure and this regulated pressure is known as the Main Pressure.

-the forward clutch
-The direct and reverse clutch-The landing and release side of the 2nd gear Brake Band piston.
- the piston end surfaces of the accumulator
-The centrifugal governor.

It supplies the torque converter with Converter Pressure.
The Governor Pressure, depending on the driving speed, influences the circuits via the valve body.

48]
Functional Schematic

49]
Selector lever in position R/Reverse

The oil pump supplies the valve body with increased Oil Pressure [3 times the regulated pressure]. The valve body continues to use the increased oil pressure to apply:

-The direct and reverse clutch
-The 1st gear and reverse brake
-The upper piston surface of the accumulator.

It supplies the torque converter with Converter Pressure.
The centrifugal governor is not used.

50]
You now know the most important thing about the automatic transmission.
Of course, there are a number of interesting details that have not yet been dealt with.
These are, for example, the functions of the valves and valves in the valve body.
If you also want to know about it, then take a look at the last two pages. Here you will find a functional diagram of the valve body with essential valves as well as a description of their various tasks.

51]
The Selector slide valve [Handschieber] position is determined by the selector lever. It directs the main pressure to the parts of the valve body to apply the proper clutch or band for the planetary gear set.

The kickdown slide valve [Kickdownschieber] acts when the accelerator pedal pressed fully, will force a downshift. This circuit cannot take place at higher speeds.

The throttle control slide valve [Gasdruckschieber] generates an oil pressure called Throttle Pressure. This pressure is dependent on the throttle position of the engine. It's used to control of the main pressure and the switching points based on load of the engine.

The 1-2 shift valve [Schaltschieber 1-2] along with the regulator stop 1-2 [Reglerstopfen 1-2] switches depending on the height of the regulator [ed. The amount of the governor pressure?] and the Throttle pressure for the 1st to 2nd gear change by relieving the feed side of the piston of the 2nd gear brake band or applied with main pressure. The regulator plug prevents over revving of the engine.

The Throttle pressure limiting slide valve [Gasdruckbegrenzungsschieber] adjusts the Throttle pressure acting on the two slide valves 1-2 and 2-3.

The main pressure limiting slide [Hauptdruckbegrenzungsschieber] limits the Throttle pressure for the spring chamber of the main pressure slide valve valve.

The main pressure slide valve [Hauptdruckschieber] controls the oil pressure for the clutches, brakes and other transmission control.

The converter pressure slide valve [Wandlerdruckschieber] controls the oil pressure for the torque converter.

The step pressure slide valve [Stufendruckschieber] controls the partial piston surface of the main pressure limiting slide valve [Hauptdruckbegrenzungsschieber].

The slide valve 2-3 [Schaltschieber 2-3] with regulator stop 2-3 [Reglerstopfen 2-3] switches depending on the height of the regulator [ed. The amount of the governor pressure?] and the Throttle pressure for the 2nd to 3rd gear change.
The control slide valve 3-2 [Steuerschieber 3-2] ensures a smooth switch back from 3rd to 2nd gear.

The Ball check valve 1. Driving range [Ventil 1. Fahrbereich]
When the shift lever is in position 1, it will connect the slide valve 1-2 [Schaltschieber 1-2] and the regulator stop 1-2 [Reglerstopfen 1-2] with main pressure. When the shift lever is in D or 2, it connects the slide valve 1-2 [Schaltschieber 1-2] to Throttle pressure.

The 1st gear ball check valve and reverse brake [Das Ventil 1-Gang-und Rückwärtsgang-Bremse].
Connects the hydraulic circuit of the 1st gear and reverse clutch
-In selector lever position 1, with the main pressure line from slide valve 1-2 [Schaltschieber 1-2] via 1st gear ball check valve [Ventil 1. Gang].
-in selector lever position R, from the Selector slide valve [Handschieber].

The 1st gear ball check valve [Ventil 1. Gang].
1st gear allowed when inserting in selector lever 1, a slow application of the 1st gear and reverse gear brake, and when taking the selector lever out of gear, a quick release.

The direct ball check valve and reverse clutch [Das Ventil Direkt-und Rückwärtskupplung]
Connects the hydraulic circuit for direct and reverse engagement
- In 3rd gear with the main pressure line from the slide valve 2-3 [Schaltschieber 2-3]
- In reverse gear with the line from the Selector slide valve. [Handschieber].

52]
Volkswagen factory AG Wolfsburg
Personnel Development and Training
Only for internal use according to the
Guidelines of Volkswagen Factory AG
September 1974
400 / 280.815.00
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos

Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mark-hans
Samba Member


Joined: October 17, 2016
Posts: 12
Location: Amsterdam
mark-hans is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:54 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic Type NH. No R, No 3rd? Reply with quote

Well thank you and thank you Mark for all that hard work. Goodness, that is really useful!....... OK, now to find out what and why!....... I'll start with the 4 clutches tests, if they all clunk and click, then the membrane!....... and if anyone knows which part of the membrane to attack that would really help. I have a feeling it might well be in there!...... but still can't work out 'why it worked perfectly for 50 miles and then started playing up. (see earlier report). To all who are reading this and contributing their knowlege over TheSamba, a bit thank you! We'll get this solved and the customer on holiday by August 15th!. Thanks again. Mark,
_________________
Mark, Amsterdam.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
mark-hans
Samba Member


Joined: October 17, 2016
Posts: 12
Location: Amsterdam
mark-hans is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:14 am    Post subject: Automatic Type NH. Box Number 2 Reply with quote

Greetings with tears!..... Earlier this month we shared some deep routed problems with an NH Auto gearbox. With a lot of help from this forum, details and details, we have gone through everything. We've mapped out everything you have given us......but after the second rebuild, still no reverse and no 3rd gear. We took a Valve body from another NH (that was also working perfectly well and had the same results with the new valve body..... We've are rebuilding this box now for the third time but can't find anything wrong!. What have we missed? Yes the seals are all brand new and pointing in the right direction, springs, pump pressure is correct, case is beautiful, all look great BUT.........


So, we've got another nice NH, stripped that down, revised every piece of it & put it in today. We have a perfect REVERSE on this box!..... but no drive at all in D, 2 or 1. Oh my Goodness, we are getting crazy here. Both gearboxes show very little signs of wear and we simply can no longer understand what is going on here!. We are working in an immaculately clean environment too. The only thing we have re-used is the transmission fluid which is spotlessly clean and we filter it each time we re-fill.

The first box wouldn't engage Reverse or 3rd Gear.
The second box engages Reverse, but nothing in Drive.

The torque converter is working perfectly on stall tests and we drove the box with no reverse/3rd for about 100 miles gently, but still no luck. As soon as it tries to grab 3rd, there's no pressure, same as in reverse. We have noted that there is a tiny bit of pressure going to reverse, but not enough to move the vehicle..........

We've built both boxes with new clutches, springs, checked and checked and checked. We've even checked the Governors too, pressure release balls in the pumps, pumps for wear etc etc. Everything looks perfect and measures up perfectly. We really ARE missing a vital point here and are stretching out in tears for some very sensible ideas............. Please can anyone help us further than you have so Kindly done earlier. Many thanks.
_________________
Mark, Amsterdam.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
AtlasShrugged
Samba Member


Joined: October 30, 2008
Posts: 1504
Location: Decatur, Ga. USA
AtlasShrugged is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:04 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic Type NH. No R, No 3rd? Reply with quote

I would suggest revisiting the air-pressure test described in this link.

Using a rubber tipped air hose nozzle..with the valve body off carefully pressurize the identified ports in the text and look or listen to the clutch packs. Just the valve body off..do not disassemble the transmission.

You now have two transmissions with different shifting problems. Do this on both and see which clutch packs work and which do not.

Report back?

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=612835

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
kourt
Samba Member


Joined: August 13, 2013
Posts: 1180
Location: Austin, TX
kourt is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:27 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic Type NH. No R, No 3rd? Reply with quote

I second this advice. The air pressure tests can give us a baseline of where to look for solutions.

kourt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mark-hans
Samba Member


Joined: October 17, 2016
Posts: 12
Location: Amsterdam
mark-hans is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:10 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic Type NH ~ No R, No 3rd? Reply with quote

OK, sometimes it takes a totally fresh set of eyes or a rest. We discovered that we failed to change two of the piston seals, one under the 24 springs, reverse clutch, and another under the big spring of the forward clutch! How this got missed was the fact of miss-communication. Both seals are damaged. We are putting those in new now and will assemble it all again. I know it will work now............ because that covers Reverse and Top Gear!..... or am I wrong?
Mark Confused
_________________
Mark, Amsterdam.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
AtlasShrugged
Samba Member


Joined: October 30, 2008
Posts: 1504
Location: Decatur, Ga. USA
AtlasShrugged is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:26 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic Type NH ~ No R, No 3rd? Reply with quote

Be sure and replace all the metal clad seals and rubbers too. Porsche used to have them in stock new for the 010 transmissions. Same part number as VW. Good prices too.

And do replace that big spring. They break as well.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mark-hans
Samba Member


Joined: October 17, 2016
Posts: 12
Location: Amsterdam
mark-hans is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:40 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic Type NH ~ No R, No 3rd? Reply with quote

As said, THANK YOU to TheSamba for the back up. We had indeed missed an important & essential bit, in fact two, so as advised, we replaced the seals and the rings associated with them. Put it all back together again and the box works perfectly! Thank you again........ now back to the rest of the T3 stuff, splitting water jacket seals I read..... OK, over to that.

Mark, Amsterdam.
_________________
Mark, Amsterdam.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2018, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB