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nogoodwithusernames
Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2014
Posts: 650
Location: CA, USA
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23362
Location: Kimball, Mi
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 Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:35 am Post subject: Re: STF Thread Link - T4 into a T3 |
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I think I've got some pics of a t-4 into a t-3 in my gallery. There might be some pics of a conversion in my son's thread too. I know he took a bunch of pics, although most of them went on his Facebook page. I know there are others on here who have done the conversion as well. Maybe they'll share. 
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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nogoodwithusernames
Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2014
Posts: 650
Location: CA, USA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:49 am Post subject: Re: STF Thread Link - T4 into a T3 |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| I think I've got some pics of a t-4 into a t-3 in my gallery. There might be some pics of a conversion in my son's thread too. I know he took a bunch of pics, although most of them went on his Facebook page. I know there are others on here who have done the conversion as well. Maybe they'll share. |
Thanks Bob! I added a reference list to the first post in these two threads (STF and Samba) including the threads I've been using and some photos from your gallery. Do you have some links to the rest on his Facebook that I could link to?
Anyone else with input or something I've missed let me know!
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71 Squareback, 1.7l T4 w/ crank trigger fuel and spark
(Conversion thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=732508&highlight= or https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=151375&sid=f0542d44a322d290c29d6609fac7f215 )
74 914, 2.0L w/ D-Jet
-Derek |
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 18042
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:54 am Post subject: Re: STF Thread Link - T4 into a T3 |
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I would have to tow my square & Type 4 engine to the Chico VW Shop if I wanted to drive it to the 2020 Invasion! 
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https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23362
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:04 pm Post subject: Re: STF Thread Link - T4 into a T3 |
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| nogoodwithusernames wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| I think I've got some pics of a t-4 into a t-3 in my gallery. There might be some pics of a conversion in my son's thread too. I know he took a bunch of pics, although most of them went on his Facebook page. I know there are others on here who have done the conversion as well. Maybe they'll share. |
Thanks Bob! I added a reference list to the first post in these two threads (STF and Samba) including the threads I've been using and some photos from your gallery. Do you have some links to the rest on his Facebook that I could link to?
Anyone else with input or something I've missed let me know! |
I could check with him later today, and see if he'll let you have some of his pics and a link to his facebook account. I don't know it's particulars, as I'm not on facebook.
Here's a link to a page he started on the Samba. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=596485
In it, it shows some of the re-work to the body he was doing. Some of it was because he wanted to do an IRS conversion, and partly because while he fabbed up the rear portion, he really wanted a stock rear section in the car. At least there are pics of his t-4 conversion in it.  You can add it to your list if you want.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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nogoodwithusernames
Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2014
Posts: 650
Location: CA, USA
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nogoodwithusernames
Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2014
Posts: 650
Location: CA, USA
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br0qn
Samba Member
Joined: March 16, 2020
Posts: 23
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: T4 into a T3 - With Resource List |
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thank you nogood for the consolidated list
here is a small contribution
and a link to the pdf nate created lost to the interwebs that I've managed to dig up
| Nate M. wrote: |
| Heres a link to a full scale PDF file for an adapter that I made for my type4-type3 conversion. This allows you to use the standard type3 bellows. Simply print it out and cut the metal. Then graft the stock type3 bellows adapter to the new mount plate. Hope this helps. . . |
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GQApIrVWj15075jK_yltYyicoyQBVaA2/view?usp=sharing
and a link with some info and photos of the finished adapater I found helpful
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...pics+added
Last edited by br0qn on Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:34 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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nogoodwithusernames
Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2014
Posts: 650
Location: CA, USA
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br0qn
Samba Member
Joined: March 16, 2020
Posts: 23
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: T4 into a T3 - With Resource List |
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Glad it helps !
Just edited the post to include a link to a thread with some photos that should also help though they are photobucket pics and subject to disappear at any moment.
ps if you get around to having one made and want to make an extra to sell me, you let me know =]
pps I'm in la, where in ca are you ? You're way ahead of me on your project and probably have a clue as to what you're doing...I do not ! Would be cool to see your progress and ask questions some time. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23362
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:46 am Post subject: Re: STF Thread Link - T4 into a T3 - With Resource List |
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| nogoodwithusernames wrote: |
Posting this one here as well since I need extra help when it comes to wiring...
Those with conversions, how have you connected the T4 alternator? (a diagram or sketch would be awesome, I read one description somewhere and was lost almost immediately.)
Here's the T3 alternator kit which has 4 wires going to it so it should be a fairly simple process?
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Keep in mind that most of the t-4 conversions use the t-4 Bosch alternator, which uses an external voltage regulator (slightly smaller than a pack of cigarettes). I know that's what we used on my son's car at least. We also used the harness for it as well, and only had to add 2 wires (mostly lengthened).
Plus we eliminated the t-3 under rear seat VR.
I don't know how the Denso alt will fit in the T-4 space, as we didn't have one to try while the engine was out. Also keep in mind that the alt shown is internally regulated.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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nogoodwithusernames
Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2014
Posts: 650
Location: CA, USA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: T4 into a T3 - With Resource List |
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Been running with the T4 motor for a bit now and been enjoying driving the car again. Drive it every chance I get around town. However I think the tins/cooling need some help and want to run my diagnosis past everyone.
Recap motor is a 1.7 with 914 tins, domed pistons, C25 cam, MS-EFI controlling spark and fuel through a set of stock FI runners and plenum. Exhaust is basically a set of "j-tubes" going into a modified 2.0l Monza exhaust.
In my opinion the motor is running hot especially on the highway. It'll touch 375 up to almost 400 even on only a 80-90° day. (gauge is temp compensated so should be reasonably accurate) This seems much hotter than most T4 motors in T3s.
All tins are in place *except* bottom tins, which while recommended the 914 bottom tins would be backwards so would not help. Does the lack of sled tins create extra turbulence under the motor and make it harder for hot air to escape? I am considering making some lower tins out of sheet metal but unsure of what the best design would be? Curve down from the bottom of the existing tin and head straight back? Airfoil shape under the pushrod tubes? Slant down on the exit to promote flow?
I also would like to seal the engine compartment so the engine isn't sucking hot air and messing with my AFRs. Should I go over the alternator and fan boot or under it?
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71 Squareback, 1.7l T4 w/ crank trigger fuel and spark
(Conversion thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=732508&highlight= or https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=151375&sid=f0542d44a322d290c29d6609fac7f215 )
74 914, 2.0L w/ D-Jet
-Derek |
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djway3474
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2011
Posts: 2585
Location: The Real NDK So Cal
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: T4 into a T3 - With Resource List |
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Your thermostat may not open up without the sleds. I have read that the thermostat sits low enough that passing air can keep it closed.
I cut my own sleds since as you said the 914 sleds would be backwards. I made them very similar to the bus.
Is that temp range head temp?
I originally made tins to seal the motor compartment then took them out because I figured the compartment would just become a hot box. On the bus or 914 outside air is being drawn through the compartment and that would not be the case here.
I took out the rear tins I made and it is more like the T3 was originally.
I assume you have the bellows connected... |
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nogoodwithusernames
Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2014
Posts: 650
Location: CA, USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:00 am Post subject: Re: T4 into a T3 - With Resource List |
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| djway3474 wrote: |
Your thermostat may not open up without the sleds. I have read that the thermostat sits low enough that passing air can keep it closed.
I cut my own sleds since as you said the 914 sleds would be backwards. I made them very similar to the bus.
Is that temp range head temp?
I originally made tins to seal the motor compartment then took them out because I figured the compartment would just become a hot box. On the bus or 914 outside air is being drawn through the compartment and that would not be the case here.
I took out the rear tins I made and it is more like the T3 was originally.
I assume you have the bellows connected... |
Hadn't thought of that, the bellows does open at least when sitting still but no way of seeing it while going down the highway.
And yep that's from under the no. 3 spark plug.
Hmmm so you went non sealed compartment, how to you get fresh air to your intake? My air filter sits right above the "heater hole" in the 914 tin and I think it's getting heat from the exhaust instead of fresh cool air. (old cut down filter in the photo, new one came in since then so have proper filtration, but shows the location, you can't quite see it from this angle but the exhaust is just a bit to the left of that big hole in the tin.)
_________________
71 Squareback, 1.7l T4 w/ crank trigger fuel and spark
(Conversion thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=732508&highlight= or https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=151375&sid=f0542d44a322d290c29d6609fac7f215 )
74 914, 2.0L w/ D-Jet
-Derek |
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djway3474
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2011
Posts: 2585
Location: The Real NDK So Cal
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:16 am Post subject: Re: T4 into a T3 - With Resource List |
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I pull in fresh air from the same location the car did originally |
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nogoodwithusernames
Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2014
Posts: 650
Location: CA, USA
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djway3474
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2011
Posts: 2585
Location: The Real NDK So Cal
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:25 am Post subject: Re: T4 into a T3 - With Resource List |
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Yes on in-line filter.
No link right now.
I came across it when I wa searching for t silicon T I used to attack throttle body to plenum that I could attach case vent to.
I will check later today for a link. Remind me if I don’t post one up. |
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djway3474
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2011
Posts: 2585
Location: The Real NDK So Cal
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nogoodwithusernames
Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2014
Posts: 650
Location: CA, USA
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djway3474
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2011
Posts: 2585
Location: The Real NDK So Cal
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: T4 into a T3 - With Resource List |
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I am still in the build phase so starvation issues are unknown.
That said 5k rpm would be on the high side as a shift point so starvation is not as likely.
I rebuilt the AFM and I had the spring tension to high making the mixture to lean. I loosened the spring to the point the motor started easy and the mixture is around 13.4 at idle.
It has not been timed other than 7.5 btdc static as I am just getting to the point of being able to time.
I am also finalizing what components to use, location etc so I finish one start and check mixture then go to the next.
I think I only have to determine which distributor I will use and add the decel valve.
After that I will be tinkering with the spring, wiper and air bypass. This can’t be done until the car is on the road so I ca watch mixture under various loads. None of this could be accomplished without the Wideband O2 gauge. |
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