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vwhammer
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Joined: May 20, 2006
Posts: 1011
Location: Boulder CO.
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 Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:08 pm Post subject: Vanagon Luxuries - How Much Is Too Much? |
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How much is too much?
A lot of us have vans with which we like to do other things besides drive.
Some of us live in our vans.
Many of us camp in our vans.
At the very least most of us like a good road trip or two in the van which may require a handful of items to make things more tolerable while on the road.
Some keep it simple.
The van's bed, and one's backpacking kit may be all that the minimalists among us require.
Others take it a little further.
These are what I am going to call the middle grounders.
They might have some water storage on board, a small kitchen/cooking set up, a solar panel and a house battery for lights, music, phones and laptops.
Pretty cozy these people live.
Then there is the stop-at-nothing-to-make-my-van-a-five-start-hotel crowd.
They have hot water, a heater, a full kitchen with a fridge, a shower, closets full of clothes and enough solar and batteries to light up Buford Wyoming.
So the questions that arise when I think about my personal van is what do I want.
How much power do I need?
How much water do I "need"?
Everyone talks of heaters but what about air conditioning?
Just to get the ball rolling and frame up some of my questions, let me tell you what I have in mind and we can go from there.
So this will likely apply to my 4x4 Vanagon as the 2wd is not really being built for any long term off grid stuff.
This van will be well insulated.
I will likely use a proper 2 part spray foam so it will be sealed and insulated pretty well.
I plan on a pretty substantial PV set up (1000W+)
This will feed a big ol' lithium ion battery.
I will have a diesel heater
There will be on-board water storage with hot water
Now here is where I get to that "too much" part.
I want air conditioning. (that's why I have all the solar and batteries)
Not just AC while driving but whenever I am in the van running or not.
I don't hear a lot of people speak of such things so perhaps it is not necessary.
Are fans enough?
I really hate camping when it is above 80 degrees and crazy humid at night.
I know AC is possible and can be done for a reasonable price but I keep wondering if it is really necessary.
Perhaps the night time is not really the time to worry about.
A big fan would probably do the trick most of the time.
I have done this before but when it is really hot and muggy it sometimes still sucks.
The day time when I am all set up in camp mode and need to be in the van would probably be when it is most useful.
Because imma lil tubby, I sweat like a ______ doing ______ while wearing a______ in a _______.
This clearly is one of those luxuries that most find unnecessary but I am not trying to rough it here.
I also have pets that might need to stay in the van while I am in a place so AC is imperative to keeping all of the windows in my van and my face from being blasted all over facebook for being a bad doggy daddy.
Ok. So, what do you consider too much?
Do you have a thing that is too much?
Do you have something that you thought you really wanted then ended up not using so much?
How much power do you have?
How much water do you carry?
I can do all of the things I have in mind on a reasonable budget but obviously the less things I have the less that can go wrong.
I have done car camping and moto camping but I usually don't have anything that could be considered a luxury.
This is primarily why I wanted a van.
I will have a cozy bed, a dry, secure space and anything else that I feel like installing.
I know this is a pretty open ended conversation and there is no right or wrong answer.
I Just want to get the conversation started and get some data that I can really process to sort out my own game plan.
Even typing all of this has made me second guess some of my ideas but who knows some people's reason for doing or not doing something.
Maybe in a few pages we will sort out the perfect compromise in comfort and practicality. |
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shagginwagon83
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Joined: February 07, 2016
Posts: 4417
Location: SWVA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:15 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon Luxuries - How Much Is Too Much? |
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Assuming you don't go with A/C unit, then what do you need the power for?
Also, what do you plan to do with the van? Are you trying to live out of it full time and work remotely? Are you traveling alone? Sorry so many questions, but it would be bad to build a platform and not like it.
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"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin |
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Gruppe B
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Joined: January 16, 2007
Posts: 1331
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon Luxuries - How Much Is Too Much? |
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Just about perfect...  |
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dobryan 
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Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 17353
Location: Brookeville, MD
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vwhammer
Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2006
Posts: 1011
Location: Boulder CO.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon Luxuries - How Much Is Too Much? |
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| shagginwagon83 wrote: |
Assuming you don't go with A/C unit, then what do you need the power for?
Also, what do you plan to do with the van? Are you trying to live out of it full time and work remotely? Are you traveling alone? Sorry so many questions, but it would be bad to build a platform and not like it. |
No. I am hoping for questions.
This is how we get to the bottom of things.
The hopes are to do some month long trips here and there.
There will also be regular trips a couple weeks in duration.
My wife will likely be with me half of the time and will need to work while we are out and about.
Actually, that brings up another luxury.
The internet.
I also planned to have redundant means of staying connected on the road.
This would range from stealing the nets from unsuspecting coffee shops to cell phone hot spots to satellite offerings.
Hopefully one of those would work most of the time.
Lastly, yes, if I did not do the AC I would likely not need so much power and would scale it back considerably. |
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dobryan
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Location: Brookeville, MD
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SCM
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Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 3482
Location: Bozeman MT
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon Luxuries - How Much Is Too Much? |
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These sort of threads are kind of pointless since everyone has different priorities, but I'll play along.
I've always been enamored with rear engined VWs and the Westy scratches that itch and fills my desire for a "toy car". But, as far as camping goes, I think of it as a really REALLY nice tent.
Our Westy, in it's current, mostly stock form is perfect for my wife and I but we only use it for camping trips - not full time living, and if we're taking a trip longer than a week we're probably flying somewhere where I can drink elaborate cocktails from out of a coconut shell.
If we're going to camp in a remote place for more than 4 or 5 days I'll sometimes haul an extra 5-gal water container with us. That's really it though, no need for solar, invertors, internet access, laptop chargers, or climate control where/when we camp (we don't have humidity and don't winter camp). We tend to spend very little time in camp when we're "camping", opting instead to be out biking or hiking all day.
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bobbyblack
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Joined: May 21, 2015
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon Luxuries - How Much Is Too Much? |
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I'll bite.
"the 4X4 vanagon"
This, to me means off road, off grid.
1000W solar is NOT enough for A/C, even the smallest window unit you can find. Double that. And, the battery and DC->AC system is a very heavy product to handle that much Amps. Plus, you'd want to disassemble that window unit, and plumb it into the vehicle, rather than some of the cockeyed solutions invented... look at the aberrations thread.
These several Wants of yours are not going to fit the Vanagon dimensions. The Base size you are talking about in a VW product would be an LT 45.
Next.. "Wife along half the time" Wait a second.. You admit to this? She must be a real gem. AND she likes Vanagons? I think there are only 2 of this ilk in the world. I have to be honest, My Ex took our Westy in the divorce, and I don't think you are married to her... That leaves Kamz, and I am really sure you aren't married to her... But I digress. (No offense to all those other Vanagon Gals I have not yet met )
Sounds much more like you are Sprinter folk. Sorry, and not to rain, but your parade is getting soaked. Just can't fit that stuff into the platform.
Oh.. Also, just to mention, a 2WD with a differential that biases/locks can go somewhere north of 95% of places only 4X4's can tread. AND, that would be based on the same driver in each cockpit. MANY folks who drive 4X4's get stuck where a better driver of a 2WD kicks butt. No offense, but keep in mind there are other ways to shave your Yak.
Good for thought tho, keep it coming 
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
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termuehlen
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Joined: May 02, 2012
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Location: Redwood City
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon Luxuries - How Much Is Too Much? |
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If you want air conditioning for camping and you have some power available, I would suggest you make yourself a swamp cooler that meets your cooling needs. Something along the lines of this:
https://www.theplayalabs.com/swamp-cooler/
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1988 Westfalia automatic Subaru OBD1
1986 syncro tintop wbx |
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dobryan
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Location: Brookeville, MD
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16CVs
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Joined: February 22, 2004
Posts: 4308
Location: Redwood City, California
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon Luxuries - How Much Is Too Much? |
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Having AC with out a serious power source is a dream, so dream on. If you camp at KOA or other type of commercial parks or even better state parks they have Power for a fee. It's usually cool enough at night to sleep in most places. Stay by the water or in the shade and remember why it is you left your house in the first place.
As far as spraying foam in cavities, that's a bad idea. Look at 73 - 79 VW beetles that had foam sprayed in and it is now rusting the bodies from the inside out. I'd find a better way to insulate than that.
I run 2 Solar panel and have 2 deep cycle batteries and that keeps my ngel bridge cold year round, I also have my interior lights wired from there, but they are LED and pull almost nothing.
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1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
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Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread. |
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danfromsyr
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Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15412
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon Luxuries - How Much Is Too Much? |
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I have a portable unit I can bring 'sometimes' if the trip warrents it
otherwise I try to travel north or up in altitude in summer
south or closer to sea level in winter.
I do have a propex, I to like to stay warm and 'weather happens' had an 8in snowfall overnight in Yellowstone Sept17. with nights in the low teens at the grand Canyon/Bryce area.
more southern campgrounds have 110v hook ups than up north or out west.
but trying to power AC w/o a generator is a fools errand.
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dougass
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Joined: December 13, 2016
Posts: 300
Location: NJ
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon Luxuries - How Much Is Too Much? |
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Work back from what you want/need. Clearly the AC is the heavy hitter here for power. If you don't end up going with it, think of what else you need power for and accommodate that +50%.
I don't have a need for aux power because I haven't killed my battery yet on multi-day trips, and haven't yet camped for a week. All my lighting is LED, I carry a few solar-charger packs for phones and lights, etc... and if I think I've drawn too much power I let the van run for a little. Though I have spent plenty on stuff I don't need, I am trying to reflect on actual needs before jumping into things like aux power, a diff, wheels & tires, body work, engine swap, another van, etc.
Anyway...back to you.
What unit are looking to integrate? I personally would stick with a system designed for RV's or Trucks, because I just have zero interest getting fancy fabbing up AC stuff. Note - I presume all RV units anticipate the use of a generator or shore power.
So next question, what generator will you consider? Don't want a generator?
If not, how much weight in batteries can accommodate that kind of power?
Is it worth it: weight, cost, space?
This is an intriguing option...
https://www.dometic.com/en-us/us/products/climate/...ifications
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'91 GL - 2.1 automatic named Klaus for weekend adventures.
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photogdave
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erste
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djkeev
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dobryan
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vwhammer
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Location: Boulder CO.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:46 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon Luxuries - How Much Is Too Much? |
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OK.
Two things.
1. I knew the swamp cooler thing would come up in this thread.
It always does as soon as anyone mentions AC and camping.
As far as the swamp cooler fans go, just google swamp coolers in Ohio or Tennessee or North Carolina or Louisiana.
THEY DO NOT WORK ANYWHERE EAST OF THE MISSISSIPPI and that is generalizing it a bit.
2. I also knew the "You can't run AC on solar/batteries" peeps would speak their minds.
I did not want to get into this debate and I still do not.
However, what I am proposing is totally possible and I will be more than happy to show you the math and explain my system that makes it possible.
I am not trying to sell you anything but with the right amount of solar, a big enough battery and some decent insulation AC in the wild is absolutely a reality.
Can you run this system for days on end on just solar and batteries?
Well, if it is sunny and the space is properly insulated, yes.
More or less, if it is the weather that you might need air conditioning, then a proper amount of solar coupled with the proper amount of batteries will absolutely equate to having a nice cool space to escape the heck hole that is anywhere with sun and temps above 80 degrees.
I had hoped to get to this sooner so I had the energy to explain it all in detail but now it's late and I have had a bit too many beers with dinner so perhaps this conversation is best saved for another time.
I will cover the AC thing in more detail later but these are the conversations that I hoped to accomplish with this thread.
Some of you are really going to blow a gasket when I tell you that I plan on running an electric AC system for the van during normal use.
This AC system will also be the system that I use for camping and all that jazz.
Ok. It's late so I am gonna bail now and explain more in the next day or two.
Until then.... |
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shagginwagon83
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:21 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon Luxuries - How Much Is Too Much? |
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You should talk with OTGcamper (IG tag) about this. I see you are an engineer and probably could setup a LiPo setup yourself, there is much you must look into.
I know for a fact I saw him set up an A/C system running off battery (lithium). He even knew how much Ah it consumed. I'm FAIRLY certain that this was used to 'cool' the van down...versus having it run all day.
Here is future OP
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dougass
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:24 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon Luxuries - How Much Is Too Much? |
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OK so I am not really sure what we are talking about... can you restate your questions so we can move forward?
The general question is "how much is too much?", and the consensus is that AC is too much without a generator or shore power. It comes across like you are asking how to do it but also saying you know how to. If you know the answer, then offer up them as facts rather then an open ended question waiting to be stomped on.
You may want to re-work your first post to streamline things here.
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